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CONLANG  April 2013, Week 4

CONLANG April 2013, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Portmanteaus for a Conlang

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 25 Apr 2013 08:14:06 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (157 lines)

On 24/04/2013 22:36, C. Brickner wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- It combines what?
>
> Electricity and execute!!

Or more strictly, the bound morpheme _electro-_ and
[exe]cute.  The verb & its associated noun _execution_ seems
to have been coined in the US in the 1890s to describe
execution by means of the electric chair.  It then became
more generally used to denote any death by electricity,
whether intended or accidental.
===========================================================

On 25/04/2013 03:08, Padraic Brown wrote:
> --- On Wed, 4/24/13, R A Brown wrote:
>
[snip]
>>
>> Which makes me ask myself whether "Oxbridge" is really
>>  a portmanteau word, at least in the sense meant by
>> Lewis Carrol.
>
> Possibly not. Humpty Dumpty who (according to WP)
> explains to Alice how the portmanteau words work in that
>  world, seems to be alluding to the (now rather old
> fashioned) portmanteau luggage -- literally "two
> [luggages] packed up into one [box]" (to borrow from
> Carrol).

Correct.

> But Dumpty speaks of "two meanings" in one word, which
> indicates that things like Oxbridge and Kentuckiana are
> nòt portmanteau words so much as compressed
> abbreviations.

My point exactly.  It seems that earlier replies ignored my
rider "at least in the sense meant by Lewis Carrol."

It seems to me that "Oxbridge" does not.  That does not mean
that one may not call it a portmanteau, but that it is not
IMO a portmanteau _in the sense used by Carrol_.

> These words don't contain "two meanings packed up into
> one word", though! Oxbridge indicates "one meaning
> spliced together from two words". Carrol is doing
> something a little bit different, but not completely
> unrelated.

Sure, the processes are related - but Carrol's are IMO more
creative    :)

[snip]

>> But "Oxbridge" (not the hamlet) is a _shortening_ of
>> "Ox[ford and Cam]bridge."
>
> Yep. But I think one could get away with it, simply
> because it is a combination of two old into one new
> entity, more or less as Dumpty says. Just look at it as
> a slightly different model of suitcase! I think we can
> do this because, while etymologically, Oxford is OX +
> FORD and Cambridge is CAM + BRIDGE, realistically I think
> for many moderns, these old place names tend towards
> irreducibility.

Oxford perhaps is now less irreducible to urban dwellers who
have never met a ford in their life (unless it be a car/
automobile) and to whom "ox" has only a vague bovine
meaning.  But to us who were brought up in the country, the
meaning is clear enough   :)

Cambridge, I think, is more readily understood as two
morphemes.  "Bridge" is a commonly used word, and place
names formed by attaching -bridge to a river name are known,
e.g. Trent bridge (famous cricket ground).

> Mattaponi and Waldorf are local town names. If I
> combined them into Mattadorf, I don't think it's really
> any different than Oxbridge, just that the original names
> are rather more opaque.

 From a synchronic point of view "Mattaponi" is a single
morpheme; so, I suspect, is "Waldorf" to most people (though
some, like me, will see -dorf as a separate morpheme).

There seems to me to be fuzzy boundaries between formations
such as:
slithy <-- slimy + lithe
smog <-- smoke + fog
Mettadorf <-- Mattaponi + Waldorf
Oxbridge <-- Oxford + Cambridge

The first two clearly meet Carrol's definition; the third
probably does, but the last one IMO does not.   As we cannot
now ask Lewis Carrol, we can only speculate    ;)

Whether there is any point in using different terms for
'Carrolian portmanteaus' and compressed abbreviations like
"Oxbridge" is another matter.
========================================================

On 24/04/2013 20:35, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets wrote:
> On 24 April 2013 17:40, R A Brown wrote:
[snip]
>> Which makes me ask myself whether "Oxbridge" is really
>>  a portmanteau word, at least in the sense meant by
>> Lewis Carrol.
>>
>>
> It depends: is it useful to make a distinction?

That is a different question. What I was asking is whether
"Oxbridge" is a portmanteau in the sense that Lewis Carrol
used the word.  To me it seems more of a stump compound.
Whether it is useful to distinguish between such stump
compounds and Carrolian portmanteaus is another matter.

[snip]

>>
> True, but is "Cam-" really a morpheme? Or is it one of
> those weird things like the "cran-" of "cranberry"?

No, Cam certainly is a morpheme; it's the name of a river or
rather of two different rivers.  There is a River Cam in
Gloucestershire; and on that river you will find a hamlet
with the name Cambridge     :)

But the city, where the university is, sits on the other
River Cam, which is a tributary of the Great Ouse is east
England.

The name of both the hamlet and the city is thus: 'Cam
bridge'    :)

=========================================================

But to revert to the subject line, i.e. .... for a conlang.

IIRC Loglan _mren_ = "man" is a portmanteau of English
_man/men_ and Mandarin _ren_.

I understand Esperanto _ĝardeno_ is a portmanteau of English
_garden_ and French _jardin_ and/or Italian _giardino_.

Both these IMO are true Carrolian portmanteaus    :)

-- 
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
"language … began with half-musical unanalysed expressions
for individual beings and events."
[Otto Jespersen, Progress in Language, 1895]

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