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CONLANG  April 2013, Week 4

CONLANG April 2013, Week 4

Subject:

Re: How to gloss euphonic mutations?

From:

"H. S. Teoh" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 27 Apr 2013 10:21:11 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (219 lines)

On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 07:38:22AM -0700, Roger Mills wrote:
> --- On Fri, 4/26/13, H. S. Teoh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I'm trying to settle on a consistent glossing scheme for Tatari Faran
> interlinears.  In TF, certain sequences of sounds are considered
> "unpleasant", and will mutate in order to preserve euphony (in the
> ears of native speakers, anyway, not necessarily corresponding to a
> foreigner's sense of aesthetics). This usually happens across word
> boundaries, for example:
> 
>     huna + na -> hunan da
>     asusu + sei -> asusei
> ==============================
> Does this happen in every such case? I.e. ...VnV + na > ...Vnda, or
> ...VsV+sei
>  > ....ssei > ...sei??

In the former case, yes:

	VnV + na > Vn da

However, Vn + na is unchanged:

	tun + na > tun na

So the process seems quite specific to -VnV.

In the second case, the rule is actually:

	sVsV + sei > sVsei

Though whether it's a _rule_ is debatable, since currently there's only
one word that fits the rule, _asusu_.  Nevertheless, there is a similar
rule with the subordinative verbal suffix -as:

	arap + -as > arapas
	akaisu + -as > akaisatas

In this case, one may formulate the rule sV + -as > satas.


> > Then it's a case of final-V deletion and -CC- sandhi, IMO, but I'm
> > not sure how Leipzig handles that. Maybe:
> 
> huna + na
> 2Pl + RCPMASC
> hun + na
> hunda

The rule doesn't apply in the second case, actually. _hun + na_ would
still just be _hun na_. Only when a vowel follows the final _n_ does the
rule take effect. It's also specific to the case clitics _na_, _nei_,
and _no_; so you have:

	huu na       hena naritai  muin
	1SG RCP:MASC and  cheer_up FIN
	And I cheered up.

rather than:

	*huu na henan daritai muin.

OTOH, you have:

	karen hunan da       tsuni tinka   aba   ira.
	karen huna  na       tsuni tinka   aba   ira.
	shoe  2PL   RCP:MASC find  conifer under FIN
	Your(pl) shoes were found under the conifer.


> This is not dissimilar to sandhi phenomena in Kash, e.g. 
> karun + mi
> lord      1SgPoss
> karumbi 'my lord' (i.e. like Engl. "m'lord")

Nice! It sounds similar to the kind of euphony rules TF has. :)


> Or
> rum + fasan
> CAUS  hot
> rupasan
> to heat s.t.
> 
> Or (more like your exs since there's deletion involved:)
> yurun  +  nahan
> PLACE   EAT
> yur + nahan
> yundrahan
> restaurant
> 
> (in ththe first case rum- behaves exceptionally, which I won't go into
> here. The point is that you can't have *rundraka because of a
> phonological constraint against 2 /r/s in successive syllables.)

Interesting! I like the sound of the sandhis. Maybe I should make more
euphony rules in TF. :) Besides the VnV + na > Vn da rule, there's also
the contraction of _ei_ into a short vowel when it occurs in two
adjacent monosyllabic words:

	sei + ei > si'ei
	mei + sei > misei
	mei + sei + ei > mei si'ei

In the third case, _mei_ doesn't contract because the contraction
between _sei_ and _ei_ already eliminated the long vowel _ei_ from being
adjacent to _mei_, so there no longer a need to contract.


> Note--
> 
> ań  +  raka
> NOML  big
> andraka
> bigness, size
> 
> Final nasals in compounds and derivs. always assimilate to the
> following C --with exceptions-- e.g.
> 
> karun + ni
> Lord    3sPOSS
> karuńi
> his lord(ship)
> 
> this is because regular *karundi would be identical to karundi <
> /karun + ti/ (2s Poss).

Interesting. I've also tried to avoid the most egregious cases of
homophony in TF, but decided that it's permissible when it happens
between a genitive form and a case particle, for example:

	huna + na       > hunan da
	2PL    RCP:MASC

	karen huna-n  + na       > karen hunan da
	shoe  2PL-GEN   RCP:MASC

In the first case, the surface form _hunan da_ is analysed as _huna +
na_, whereas in the second case, the isomorph _hunan da_ is analysed as
_hunan + na_.

(Incidentally, this means that the rule is actually more complex than
I've stated earlier; it's actually both of:

	VnV + na > Vn da
	nVn + na > nVn da

Vowel deletion happens in the first case, not the second, but in both
cases _na_ shifts to _da_.)

Not all such cases are ambiguous, though; with words like _pasanan_,
another rule kicks in when forming the genitive:

	pasanan + -an  > pasanaran
	town      -GEN

So the surface forms of "town + na" is quite distinct from "town-GEN +
na":

	pasanan + na       > pasanan da
	town      RCP:MASC

	san    pasanaran  + na       > san pasanaran na
	san    pasanan-an + na       > san pasanaran na
	person town-GEN     RCP:MASC


> =================================================
> 
> How does one gloss such phonological mutations? The first case is
> especially troublesome, because _hunan_ on its own is a genitive of
> the pronoun _huna_, but in this case, it's merely a disguised form of
> its unmodified stem. So, should it be glossed as:
> 
>     hunan da
>     huna  na
>     2PL   RCP.MASC
> 
> or as:
> 
>     hunan da
>     huna- n_da
>     2PL   RCP.MASC
> 
> ?
> 
> According to the Leipzig glossing conventions, the second line should be
> a morpheme-by-morpheme breakdown; how should the base morphemes _huna_
> and _na_ be indicated, and how should they align with the orthographic
> text?
> ============================
> So apparently the orthographic text should come last. Personally, I
> think it should come first since that's the form the reader is trying
> to analyze. Mais que sais-je?

Hmm. According to:

	http://www.eva.mpg.de/lingua/resources/glossing-rules.php

under Rule 2, 2nd para, it states that one may add another line at the
beginning containing the unmodified text. In my understanding, the last
line should be the free (English) translation? So something like this:

	hunan da       tsuni jibin ipasanaran     ka       ira
	huna  na       tsuni jibin i-pasanan-an   ka       ira
	2PL   RCP:MASC find  child PART-town-PART ORG:MASC FIN
	You(pl) were found by the city boy.

(The circumfix i-...-an is an appositive, so _jibin ipasanaran_ is "city
boy" as opposed to _jibin pasanaran (GEN)_ "boy of (a particular)
city".)

Or did I misunderstand the rules?


T

-- 
Give me some fresh salted fish, please.

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March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
February 2006, Week 3
February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
January 2006, Week 5
January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
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January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
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November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
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October 2005, Week 1
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June 2005, Week 5
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April 2005, Week 5
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April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
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March 2005, Week 1
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January 2005, Week 3
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January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
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December 2004, Week 3
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December 2004, Week 1
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November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
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October 2004, Week 3
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October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
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September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
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February 2004, Week 1
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January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
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December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
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June 2003, Week 5
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June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
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May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
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April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
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June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
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May 2002, Week 3
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May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
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April 2002, Week 3
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April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
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January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
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October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
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September 2001, Week 3
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July 2001, Week 5
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July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
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June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
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May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
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March 2001, Week 3
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February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
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December 2000, Week 5
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April 2000, Week 5
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March 2000, Week 5
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February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
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December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
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November 1999, Week 3
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November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
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June 1999, Week 5
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June 1999, Week 1
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January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
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November 1998, Week 3
November 1998, Week 2
November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
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October 1998, Week 3
October 1998, Week 2
October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
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September 1998, Week 3

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