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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  May 2013, Week 3

CONLANG May 2013, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Too simple to be derived?

From:

Zach Wellstood <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 17 May 2013 19:17:47 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (132 lines)

 liyaá' łí'!

=======
If the conlanger does the above out
of ignorance or out of naivety, then it is ill done, though certainly
forgiveable! It is a sign of immaturity in the art, and such a one can
be taught and can improve his works, like a kindergartener taking the
tempra begobbed paint brush in his fist and mashing it onto the newsprint
taped to the easel.
=======

I am not entirely sure if I think it's "ill done," or even needs
correction, since the same ignorance and naivete is, to some degree, a
creative impetus that's free of the "natlang constraints," and could yield
some fairly creative lexical items/structures later on down the line.
"ungood" for "bad" isn't necessarily the móst creative thing they could
come up with, but I do have an appreciation for slowly branching out of
one's box to think up interesting new ways of parsing up the universe. Nor
do I think conscious choice *needs* justification in a conculture or the
like, so long as its creator is content with the expressive nature of the
language.

łaá siri has some of these more simple compounds and extremely general
roots (no conculture, purely personal artlang). Often, its system of
animacy can be used to narrow the meaning of a root, usually changing it
across all four animacies. This is particularly so for kinship terms and
the like.

(I think) the first root I created in łaá siri was <yi>-, a noun root which
originally meant "man." I felt that this was too specific and narrowed it
to "male thing." This appears in compounds such as <tłaayi>- ("an absence
of something, nothing of something") and <yisasa>- ("male parent," which,
depending on animacy, can mean "father," "parent animal that's male," and
so on). There is also <'arusasa>- which is the female counterpart to
<yisasa>-, also which I happened to coin first and then back-formed into
<'aru>+<sasa>.

Other kinship terms are <tłayi>- and <tła'aru>-, which correspond to the
generation before one's immediate parents (ie grandparents), but again may
be used differently depending on animacy. The <tła> part is a verb root
meaning "to be aged/old."

I have a bizarre infatuation with extremely "simple" compounds or compounds
for common words broken down into their core sememes. In łaá siri I have
acquired a penchant for encoding meaning based only on a noun's animacy as
well.

For instance, the major organs in our bodies correspond to major areas of
the body where they are found, using the same root, with a different
animacy.

<yii'isilii>- is the root (which can be broken down into -<yii'i> ["to be
inside of / between"] + <silii>- [used for things with life, no directly
corresponding root, however])

then you have --

<yii'isiliiła> (root + ANIMATE suffix), which means "chest/torso, the area
from the shoulders down to the bottom of the ribcage, roughly"

and

<yii'isiliisaá> (root + ABSTRACT suffix), which means "heart"

This goes for other major organs, like the brain, as well. Not every organ
is considered major.

So I suppose this is a bit of a divergence from the original question, but
I wanted to share a way in which more "basic" concepts are expressed with
far more underlying complexity in łaá siri than in English.

Zach
http://lhaasiri.tumblr.com





On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 6:15 PM, Jim Henry <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Leonardo Castro <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> > I have read some criticism about conlangs that derive common words
> > from words; "bad" as "ungood", for instance (what recalls Newspeak and
> > Esperanto). What do you think about it? Do your conlangs have any very
> > common words that are derived from others? Are there examples of such
>
> gjâ-zym-byn was designed to be lexically minimalist in most semantic
> fields.  It's less so now than it was at the beginning; the reason for
> the lexical minimalism was to make it easier to gradually learn it
> while using and developing it, and minimize the memory load of
> up-front word-coining and vocabulary memorization.  Once I'd learned
> most of the initially-coined words I allowed myself to make up new
> ones, and tried to learn vocabulary at roughly the same rate I coin
> it.  Over time I've replaced many common compounds with new root words
> (or shorter compounds formed with new roots); for instance {ĝĭ-cô}
> "big-opposite" was replaced by {ny} "small", and {ẑy-rjâ}
> "dream-quest" was replaced by {mwĭl} "sleep".  On the other hand, many
> fairly common words are still compounds, including all the words for
> "good" and "bad" (there's no close equivalent of either word in gzb,
> which chops up that semantic space finely into morally good,
> aesthetically good, healthy, health-promoting, pleasurable, etc., and
> similar "bad" terms like immoral, disgusting, unhealthy, painful,
> etc.).
>
> I can't think of any examples of that sort of thing in natlangs.  Some
> languages with a gender system can perhaps be analyzed as deriving
> brother, sister and some other kinship terms from e.g. sibling+male or
> sibling+female, but I'm not sure this analysis would really hold up
> (do such languages allow you to use a bare uninflected root for
> "sibling"? not the ones I'm familiar with), and anyway they don't seem
> to do that with "father" and "mother".
>
> But for an auxlang, engelang, or non-naturalistic artlang, such
> compounds for basic concepts may well be fitting to the design goals
> of the language.  They're not inherently bad unless you're aiming for
> naturalism.  And even then, what seems to be an unnatural compound for
> a "basic" term may be, in fact, a subtle hint that for your particular
> artlang's speakers, that term is *not* really basic or common as it is
> for most human cultures.
>
> --
> Jim Henry
> http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/
> http://www.jimhenrymedicaltrust.org
>



-- 
raa'lalí 'aa! - [sirisaá! <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conlang>]

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October 2002, Week 1
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August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
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July 2002, Week 1
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April 2002, Week 5
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April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
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March 2002, Week 3
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March 2002, Week 1
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February 2002, Week 1
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December 1998, Week 5
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