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CONLANG  May 2013, Week 5

CONLANG May 2013, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Revising Tirelat romanization

From:

Adam Walker <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 29 May 2013 11:57:17 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (117 lines)

I use <x> in the Gravgaln romanization for a sound that varies between the
uvular trill and a voiced velar fricative or affricate.

Adam

On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 11:36 AM, BPJ <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> 2013-05-29 03:13, Herman Miller skrev:
>
>  I've been thinking for some time that it might be better to spell
>> out Tirelat affricates as <ts> and <dz> instead of <ċ> and <ż>.
>> For one thing, natlangs never pronounce these as /ts/ and /dz/,
>> and for another, spelling them as <ts> and <dz> makes the
>> pronunciation obvious.
>>
>
> Indo-Aryanists actually use <ċ> and <ż> (or <ĉ> and <ẑ>)
> for /ts/ and /dz/, and I've seen them so used for Tibetan too.
>
>
>
>> Now I'm starting to think that I should just simply avoid the
>> letter <x> in any of my languages. I've been thinking about the
>> name "Xora Xhoan Daxos" from the "Game of Thrones" series. If it's
>> meant to be pronounced "Zora Zoan Daksos", as the actors do, why
>> not just spell it that way? If it's meant to be pronounced
>> differently, no one can know which of the many pronunciations of
>> <x> is intended.
>>
>> The obvious fix is to use <kh> for the /x/ sound. It could be
>> mistaken for /k.h/ as in "backhand" or "sinkhole", but not much
>> else, and Tirelat doesn't have an /h/ sound. Plus it gives me an
>> excuse to write <gh> for /ɣ/. I've never much liked <ġ> or <ğ>, or
>> any of the alternatives like <ƣ> ("gha", U+01A3).
>>
>
> How do you write other fricatives and affricates?
>
>
>> So, what about other potential changes?
>>
>> 1. <rh> for /r̥/ (voiceless r).
>>
>> 2. <ng> for /ŋ/.
>>
>>
>> 3. <y> for /j/. Spelling /j/ as <y> would leave <j> free to
>> represent /dʒ/, which exists in some conservative dialects. But
>> there's nothing much wrong with <dž>, and I'd need a new spelling
>> for /ɨ/, which I'm currently writing as <y>.
>>
>> 4. <lh> for /ɬ/.
>>
>> 5. Double letters for long vowels.
>>
>> Any thoughts on these conventions? My inclination is to go with
>> <ts>, <dz>, <kh>, <gh>, and <rh>, but keep <ŋ>, <j>, <ł>, and <h>
>> for long vowels.
>>
>
> I would certainly think twice before mixing +h digraphs and
> diacritics, and certainly before using different strategies for
> /r̥/ and /ɬ/! I empathize with your reservations about <x>. I
> have myself used it for almost every voiceless fricative
> between /χ/ and /ʃ/ as well as for voiced coronal affricates;
> to be sure there are precedents of sorts for all these usages,
> but this very ambiguity introduces an uneasiness about the
> letter. In the 'Romanization' of Sohlob, which goes back to
> Latin-1 days, I use both diacritics and single letters with odd
> values as well as digraphs:
>
> |   <æ>   /æ/
> |   <c>   /tɕ/
> |   <ç>   /ɕ/
> |   <e>   /ɨ/
> |   <j>   /dʑ/, [ʑ]
> |   <hl>  /ɬ/
> |   <ng>  /ŋ/ (<nk nx nq> [ŋk ɴχ ɴʁ])
> |   <ny>  /ɲ/
> |   <o>   /ɒ/
> |   <q>   /ʁ/
> |   <x>   /χ/
> |   <y>   /j/
>
> plus, in the sister language Cidilib <hm hn hng hny hr> for
> voiceless sonorants and <ngg> for /ŋg/. I would like to make it
> more consistent, and would preferably use <ħ/ꝁ> /χ/, <ǥ> /ʁ/, <ł>
> /ɬ/, <ɍ> /r̥/, <ŋ> /ŋ/ and maybe even <ɉ> for /dʑ/, but there
> just isn't any way I could consistently represent the voiced and
> voiceless quadruplets of nasals with existing precomposed
> characters. The closest I can get is not right at all:
>
> |   <m>     /m/     <ṃ>     /m̥/
> |   <n>     /n/     <ṉ>     /n̥/
> |   <ň>     /ɲ/     <ṋ>     /ɲ̊/
> |   <ṅ>     /ŋ/     <ṇ>     /ŋ̊/
>
> I could live with <m ṃ n ṇ ň ṇ̌ ŋ ŋ̇ l ḷ r ṛ> if I only could
> get them all precomposed! Moreover most fonts have a <ǥ>
> struck through the tail, while I like it struck through the
> (upper) bowl.
>
> I've tried to go all in the other way with digraphs, but those
> certainly rub me the wrong way. The words just don't look right!
>
> |   <æ>     <e>
> |   <c>     <ch>
> |   <ç>     <sh>
> |   <e>     <y>
> |   <j>     <jh>, <zh>
> |   <q>     <gh>
> |   <x>     <kh>
> |   <y>     <j>
>
> /bpj
>

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