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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  June 2013, Week 1

CONLANG June 2013, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Sold here / for sale / on sale / on sale here

From:

"H. S. Teoh" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 6 Jun 2013 22:15:24 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (74 lines)

On Thu, Jun 06, 2013 at 10:00:52PM -0500, George Corley wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 9:41 PM, Adam Walker <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> > You might as well give it up Scott. Your question has become YAEUT,
> > and there is little hope of dredging it baxk out of that hell once
> > it has entered. No one will pay the slightest mind to your actual
> > question now. They must all explore the minutiae of each and ever
> > English dialect sopken by any list memeber and all colse friend and
> > relatives out to the sixth degree of consanguinity. You might as
> > well wait a few weeks for this thred to die and reformulate your
> > question in another  way in the hope that the next wording won't
> > trigger an immediate YAE?T.
> >
> 
> In an attempt to salvage this somewhat, I can't really comment too
> much on the "for sale"/"on sale" distinction in other languages, but I
> do have an interesting bit on how "sales" are presented differently in
> Mandarin.

Well, that just adds a YAC?T to the mix. ;-)

But on a more serious note:

>  Basically, two things (one of which is probably more cultural than
>  linguistic).
> 
> 1) (The more cultural one)-- sales are presented with the fraction of
> the price you pay (in understood tenths), rather than the percentage
> that is taken off the price.  So 打八折 (da3 ba1 zhe2) is literally
> "do 8 discount", meaning that you pay only 80% of the full price,
> whereas in Anglophone cultures we'd describe the same sale as "20%
> off".

It's interesting that even this has regional differences. Where I came
from, we don't say _da3 zhe3_ (or at least it's rarer); the usual phrase
is _zian3 zia4_ (decreased price). (Sorry, I'm not 100% sure of the
transcription, I'm just writing phonetically -- my dialect of Mandarin
has collapsed some consonant distinctions so my transcription may be
off.) Variations include _zian3 ban4 zia4_ (decreased half price), i.e.,
50% of original price.


> 2) A really minor note, "Buy one get one free" translates as
> 买一个送一个 (mai3 yi ge, song4 yi ge), lit. "buy one, give one"
> (different numeral classifiers may apply, of course).  It's
> interesting to me how this phrase puts more focus on the vendor's
> agency in giving you a gift for buying something, whereas the English
> phrase focuses entirely on the buyer's actions.

I would underscore that _song4_ has the effect of giving a *gift*,
whereas general giving would merely be _gei3_.  One *could* say _mai3 yi
ge, gei3 yi ge_ "buy one, give one", but it doesn't sound quite as
appealing as _song4 yi ge_. The latter makes the prospective buyer feel
like they're getting a free gift, whereas the former doesn't quite
convey that feeling of eagerness.

A transliteration of the English might be _mai3 yi ge, de2 yi ge_ "buy
one, gain one", but _de2_ makes you feel like you have to earn it,
whereas _song4_ makes you feel we're giving you a special gift. Other
ways of transliterating include _mai3 yi ge, na2 yi ge_ "buy one, take
one" -- but that has the risk of being misinterpreted (or liberally
interpreted) as being able to pay for a $0.50 item and taking home the
$500 TV set on display -- a meaning that _song4_ doesn't permit, since
only the giver has the right to choose the gift. (And I kid you not, if
a shopkeeper were to actually put up a sign reading _mai3 yi ge, na2 yi
ge_, somebody *will* deliberately interpret it as a free-for-all. Civic
restraint is rather lacking in some ways in those parts, to our shame.)


T

-- 
A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems. -- P. Erdos

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