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CONLANG  June 2013, Week 4

CONLANG June 2013, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Hello, and language sketch.

From:

James Kane <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 26 Jun 2013 09:03:13 +1200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (156 lines)

So the consonant written <r> is a flap? And /x/ is written <kh>? This seems very cool although there's quite a lot to take in, maybe a few example sentences with gloss outlining the principle features would help. 

From what I can tell I like the way the -se affix works although I'm not sure I quite understand it, and when the change in word order happens in relative clauses.

Your condialects project sounds very exciting and I would be interested to have a small peak, although I know almost nothing about Japanese (indeed, I know more about Okinawan)


James

On 25/06/2013, at 7:50 AM, Aodhán Aannestad <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> On 6/24/2013 1:16 PM, neo gu wrote:
>> On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 23:28:43 -0500, Aodhán Aannestad <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello! I'm a longtime lurker, finally deciding to get involved a little.
>>> Some of you may have met me at the last LCC, I'm with UT Austin's
>>> conlang club and I drove some people around. I've been conlanging on and
>>> off for quite some time now, but I don't have much to show for it - I
>>> tend to be singlemindedly focused on realism, and as my level of
>>> linguistics knowledge has increased I've scrapped and restarted on
>>> several occasions due to realising how horribly unrealistic of a
>>> language I'd created. This is kind of the latest iteration of that
>>> cycle, and as I'm done with all the core undergrad ling classes now
>>> hopefully I've run out of major things to learn and it'll prove to be
>>> the last.
>> Welcome to active participation!
>> 
>> I'm not one of the experts on naturalistic conlanging, but I do have one comment: one of your fricatives is showing up as a /?/ in the archives; also, /w j ? l/.
>> 
>> --
>> Jeff Jones
> Oh, yeah, the email got messed up because for whatever reason my editor is a weird mix of HTML and WYSIWYG. Those are supposed to be what's /T/ and /4/ in X-SAMPA.
> 
>> 
>>> Anyway, on to the language. It doesn't have a name yet, sadly - I'm
>>> using it for a protolang for a large project, and since said large
>>> project has yet to really begin, it's not really in a state where I can
>>> really name anything. (I suppose I could come up with an endonym for it
>>> - it'd be something like 'Lesuy' (/lesuj/, /person-speak/) or something,
>>> though that doesn't sound that great to my ears.)
>>> 
>>> Phonologically, it's not that interesting - five vowels (/a i u e o/),
>>> two stop series (/p t k/ and /p^(h) t^(h) k^(h)/, transcribed <b d g>
>>> and <p t k>), /m n/ - the usual stuff. It only has one fricative series,
>>> but it does distinguish /?/ and /s/ (for four total, /f ? s x/). /w j ?
>>> l/ round out the inventory.
>>> Syllable structure is (C)(G)V(G)(C), where <G> is a glide. /uw ij/ are
>>> disallowed, and maximal CGVGC syllables are very rare. Affixes have no
>>> shape target - anything from V to a maximal syllable is in theory
>>> permitted. Length is kind of phonemic on consonants (really, a 'long
>>> consonant' is just two adjacent identical consonants - /alla/ 'day' is
>>> VC.CV, not V.C?V), not on vowels - any sequences of two identical vowels
>>> are shrunk into one (e.g. /emnira/, 'girl', from /emni/ 'woman' + /ira/
>>> 'child'). /i/ and /u/ become glides when adjacent to other vowels (e.g.
>>> /dorayra/ 'boy', from /dora /'man' + /ira/). Aspiration isn't
>>> distinguished in codas. There's not much else in the way of phonological
>>> rules/alternations, at the moment this is the idealised pre-protolang
>>> stage, and I'll need to send it through some sound changes before I get
>>> a good protolang by the technical definition.
>>> Stress is noncontrastive - it occurs on the heaviest of the last three
>>> syllables, defaulting to the antepenultimate when they're all equal
>>> (so/魮ira, dorṲa,////dal鳩se (do-person-COP-ATT)/, etc.)/./
>>> 
>>> Grammatically, it's agglutinative and erg-abs. The two basic word
>>> classes are noun and verb (all 'adjectives' are just verbs, and at least
>>> in the protolanguage all 'adverbs' are clearly nouns or nominalised
>>> verbs marked with a non-core case). Word order is VSO when there's no
>>> overt complementiser, and SOV when there is (so /fikol le/ 'the man has
>>> gone', but /le/ /fikolti/ 'the fact that the man has gone').
>>> 
>>> Verbs don't care about person, number, or tense, but there are 5 or 7
>>> aspect markers (perfective/stative (null-marked), progressive, perfect,
>>> expective, intentive(?), and hortative and imperative if you count them
>>> - they're mutually exclusive with aspect). It has a number of 'mood'
>>> markers: potential and permissive; volitive, suggestive, and
>>> necessitive, and weak and strong expectation (weak is for 'I bet X is
>>> the case' and strong is for 'X /has/ to be the case, I just know it').
>>> Relative clauses are formed by using the attributive affix
>>> /-se/:/fikolse le/ 'the man who has gone'. /-se/ doesn't specify the
>>> role the modified noun would have in the clause, that's left up to
>>> context (so typically you can only relativise obliques when the
>>> subclause has all of its core arguments overtly specified). (This works
>>> mostly like the Japanese rentaikei.)
>>> 
>>> The only obligatory marking on nouns is case, but there's a number of
>>> other potential affixes. Number is especially complex - specific
>>> quantities are marked directly on the noun (so/lemofyethon/ 'twenty
>>> people', it's base-8 so that breaks down as /le-mo-fye-thon/
>>> 'person-8-2-4' for (2*8)+4 people), and there are also suffixes for
>>> 'more than half (of a group)', 'less than half (of a group)', 'part (of
>>> a unit)', and 'all (of a unit)'. These can be augmented by 'all' or
>>> 'none', and further by 'the next' or 'the previous' (allowing for very
>>> long sequences such as /lemofyethondawfag /'none of the last twenty
>>> people'). Demonstratives are also noun suffixes (there's a two-way
>>> distinction, 'this'/'that'), and an interrogative marker can slot in
>>> here too (/lewos?/ 'who? / which person?').
>>> 
>>> There are a good number of cases (it's kind of Finno-Ugric in this
>>> regard :P) Beyond the erg and null-marked abs, there's two kinds of
>>> genitives, possessive and categorical (for things like 'men of that
>>> village', 'the strength of an ox', 'a sword of bronze' and so on), both
>>> of which form verbs (so//'the man's cat' has to be /lenase nyawa/ with
>>> -/se/, not */lena nyawa/ - /lena nyawa /is grammatical, but it would be
>>> heard as 'the cat is the man's').
>>> Locative cases are the following: inessive and exessive (both used for
>>> general locatives, inessive for being within the boundaries of a place,
>>> exessive for being near but outside the boundaries of a place or
>>> object), superessive and subessive, proessive ('in front of') and
>>> postessive ('behind'), comitative, allative (also used as a dative) and
>>> ablative (also used as the agent of causatives and volitives), illative
>>> and ellative, superlative ('going over') and sublative ('going under'),
>>> circumlative/circumessive, and adspective ('facing') and abspective
>>> ('facing away from').
>>> Non-locative cases are benefactive (also used for the experiencer with a
>>> number of perception verbs - 'see' for example has a BEN subject when
>>> you would expect ERG, and giving it an ERG subject changes the meaning
>>> to 'look at'), instrumental, causative, and comparative.
>>> Copular constructions are formed by affixing the copular verbaliser
>>> /-si/ to nouns - /dorasi le/ 'the person is a man'. This allows for a
>>> somewhat idiosyncratic way to express motion - while it's perfectly
>>> grammatical to say /fyokh ne sakhtasoy /(/go-PROG 1-ABS river-ALL,
>>> /literally 'I am going to the river'), it's much more native-sounding to
>>> say /sakhtasoysi ne/ (/river-ALL-COP 1-ABS, /literally 'I am to the river').
>>> 
>>> Beyond three generic 'pronouns' (1st person exclusive and inclusive and
>>> 2nd person), there's not much in the way of real pronouns - nouns can be
>>> used with any person as their referent, and typical non-personal
>>> pronouny things are done with nouns plus suffixes (so 'who' is just
>>> /lewos /(/person-INT/), literally 'which person'). There is a set of
>>> 'generic nouns', though, which are basically nouns that refer to quite
>>> large categories of things - 'person', 'object', 'place', 'point in
>>> time', 'state of being', 'piece', 'reason/cause', and 'action' make up
>>> the set - and this allows for fairly conventionalised pronouns ('person'
>>> can be 'him/her', 'object' can be 'it', 'place' plus the near
>>> demonstrative can be 'here', and so on). These nouns are further
>>> distinguished from other nouns by being used as nominaliser suffixes -
>>> so /ub/, the generic for 'reason/cause', combines with /ryukol /'has
>>> died' to make /ryukolub/ 'the reason [the subj] died'.
>>> There are also two generic verbs, meaning something like 'to do (it)'
>>> and 'to go (there)'. They can also be used as nominalisers (somewhat
>>> ironically :P), meaning 'method' and 'process', respectively.
>>> 
>>> There's a few other small details here and there (I've left out
>>> valence-change affixes, for example), but that's a basic overview of the
>>> language. The goal is realism (indeed, all else is secondary), so some
>>> comments in regards to how realistic these systems are would be
>>> appreciated! I've got a few ideas on where to go with it from here, but
>>> if anyone has any ideas I'd be happy to hear them.
>>> 
>>> This is my main conlang project, but I'm also working on a set of
>>> condialects of Japanese (splitting off at various points after around
>>> 1610?), and I'd be happy to describe them if anyone's interested. (It's
>>> gotten to the point where I'll slip into my primary condialect every
>>> once in a while while thinking in Japanese, even when I'm not explicitly
>>> trying to think in it :P)

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November 2007, Week 4
November 2007, Week 3
November 2007, Week 2
November 2007, Week 1
October 2007, Week 5
October 2007, Week 4
October 2007, Week 3
October 2007, Week 2
October 2007, Week 1
September 2007, Week 5
September 2007, Week 4
September 2007, Week 3
September 2007, Week 2
September 2007, Week 1
August 2007, Week 5
August 2007, Week 4
August 2007, Week 3
August 2007, Week 2
August 2007, Week 1
July 2007, Week 5
July 2007, Week 4
July 2007, Week 3
July 2007, Week 2
July 2007, Week 1
June 2007, Week 5
June 2007, Week 4
June 2007, Week 3
June 2007, Week 2
June 2007, Week 1
May 2007, Week 5
May 2007, Week 4
May 2007, Week 3
May 2007, Week 2
May 2007, Week 1
April 2007, Week 5
April 2007, Week 4
April 2007, Week 3
April 2007, Week 2
April 2007, Week 1
March 2007, Week 5
March 2007, Week 4
March 2007, Week 3
March 2007, Week 2
March 2007, Week 1
February 2007, Week 4
February 2007, Week 3
February 2007, Week 2
February 2007, Week 1
January 2007, Week 5
January 2007, Week 4
January 2007, Week 3
January 2007, Week 2
January 2007, Week 1
December 2006, Week 5
December 2006, Week 4
December 2006, Week 3
December 2006, Week 2
December 2006, Week 1
November 2006, Week 5
November 2006, Week 4
November 2006, Week 3
November 2006, Week 2
November 2006, Week 1
October 2006, Week 5
October 2006, Week 4
October 2006, Week 3
October 2006, Week 2
October 2006, Week 1
September 2006, Week 5
September 2006, Week 4
September 2006, Week 3
September 2006, Week 2
September 2006, Week 1
August 2006, Week 5
August 2006, Week 4
August 2006, Week 3
August 2006, Week 2
August 2006, Week 1
July 2006, Week 5
July 2006, Week 4
July 2006, Week 3
July 2006, Week 2
July 2006, Week 1
June 2006, Week 5
June 2006, Week 4
June 2006, Week 3
June 2006, Week 2
June 2006, Week 1
May 2006, Week 5
May 2006, Week 4
May 2006, Week 3
May 2006, Week 2
May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 5
April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
February 2006, Week 3
February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
January 2006, Week 5
January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
January 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
November 2005, Week 3
November 2005, Week 2
November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
October 2005, Week 4
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 5
September 2005, Week 4
September 2005, Week 3
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
August 2005, Week 4
August 2005, Week 3
August 2005, Week 2
August 2005, Week 1
July 2005, Week 5
July 2005, Week 4
July 2005, Week 3
July 2005, Week 2
July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
June 2005, Week 4
June 2005, Week 3
June 2005, Week 2
June 2005, Week 1
May 2005, Week 5
May 2005, Week 4
May 2005, Week 3
May 2005, Week 2
May 2005, Week 1
April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
February 2005, Week 4
February 2005, Week 3
February 2005, Week 2
February 2005, Week 1
January 2005, Week 5
January 2005, Week 4
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
October 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
October 2004, Week 2
October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
September 2004, Week 4
September 2004, Week 3
September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
August 2004, Week 4
August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 5
July 2004, Week 4
July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 5
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 5
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
May 2004, Week 2
May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
April 2004, Week 4
April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 5
March 2004, Week 4
March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 2
March 2004, Week 1
February 2004, Week 5
February 2004, Week 4
February 2004, Week 3
February 2004, Week 2
February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
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December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
July 2003, Week 4
July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
May 2003, Week 2
May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
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August 2001, Week 1
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July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
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January 2001, Week 3
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December 2000, Week 5
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October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
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July 2000, Week 3
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June 2000, Week 3
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May 2000, Week 1
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March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
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July 1999, Week 3
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July 1999, Week 1
June 1999, Week 5
June 1999, Week 4
June 1999, Week 3
June 1999, Week 2
June 1999, Week 1
May 1999, Week 5
May 1999, Week 4
May 1999, Week 3
May 1999, Week 2
May 1999, Week 1
April 1999, Week 5
April 1999, Week 4
April 1999, Week 3
April 1999, Week 2
April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
March 1999, Week 4
March 1999, Week 3
March 1999, Week 2
March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 5
February 1999, Week 4
February 1999, Week 3
February 1999, Week 2
February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
January 1999, Week 2
January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
December 1998, Week 3
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November 1998, Week 4
November 1998, Week 3
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November 1998, Week 1
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October 1998, Week 3
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September 1998, Week 3

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