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CONLANG  July 2013, Week 2

CONLANG July 2013, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Oblique Passives

From:

Roger Mills <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Roger Mills <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 7 Jul 2013 21:20:47 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (48 lines)

From: Alex Fink <[log in to unmask]>



On Sun, 7 Jul 2013 23:27:36 -0400, neo gu <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>The ablative case-marker can be moved from the noun to become a verb prefix. The verb is now transitive and the original oblique object is the direct object:
>
>(4) kes^ ku 'erefante godakto.
>    kes^   ku  'erefante-0-0   go-dak-0-0-to
>    3ASNom Def elephant-S-Acc ???-run-Aor-Fin-DT
>    "She ran from the elephant."
>
>Note:    I don't know what interlinear tag to use for the prefix!

Sounds to me that this is an ordinary _applicative_, an ablative applicative to be precise.  

>Oblique passives are most useful as participles modifying nouns:
>
>(8) 'u godaxre 'erefantes^
>    'u   go-dax-r-0-e       'erefante-0-s^
>    Def ???-run-Pas-Aor-Att elephant-S-Nom
>    "the run-from elephant"

I think I've seen a very similar suite of examples to this before in discussion of some natlang which had applicatives and passives but syntactically could only relativise on the subject.  (Sorry I can't remember more details.)
===============================================

Possibly Indonesian/Malay?? you can have things like 
Ali duduk di kursi
Ali sit    loc chair
Ali sat in the chair

Ali (men)/duduk/i kursi
Ali (ACT)/sit/APP:Loc  chair  the active pfx is optional, colloquial, very common.
Ali sat.in the chair, Ali  occupied the chair

...kursi yang di/duduk/i (oleh Ali)
chair REL  pass/sit/APP:Loc (by Ali), 
the chair that was.sat.in (~occupied) (by Ali)

The suffix -i turns many an intrans. verb into a transitive with locative mng. (among other things, like simple object focus :-)))))

I can't come up with the equivalent of "the run-from elephant" because 'run' is _lari_ and verbs with final -i cant take the -i suffix for some reason. Plus there's no App. for 'from'.  But this is close:

Ia takut pada (elephant) She's aftaid of the elephant
Ia takuti (~menakuti) (elephant)  'she fears the elephant' even she's afraid of the elephant
e. yang di/takuti/nya E. that is.feared./by her  or the eleph. that she fears/ she's afraid of

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