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CONLANG  July 2013, Week 2

CONLANG July 2013, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Null-subject language

From:

Leonardo Castro <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 8 Jul 2013 10:45:47 -0300

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (111 lines)

Some pt-en tentative translations of mine that maybe are similar to
la-en translations:

Não sei. -> I don't know.

Eu não sei. -> I do not know.

Num sei. / N'sei. / Sei não.  -> Don't know... (Informal with "I"
hidden. Doesn't it happen?)


Até mais!

Leonardo


2013/7/8 R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>:
> On 08/07/2013 11:48, George Corley wrote:
>>
>> Frankly, a lot of these theorhetical wranglings are of
>> limited use to conlangers, at least for those who want to
>> create naturalistic conlangs. Really, the best thing you
>> can do there is use real natural languages as models.
>> Linguistic theories are by necessity simplified models,
>> and often are incomplete or confusing. It's more
>>
>> important to understand the data they're trying to
>> describe rather the theory people are building to
>> understand it.
>
>
> I think I basically go along with that.  Certainly I agree
> wholeheartedly that: "Really, the best thing you can do
>
> there is use real natural languages as models."
> =========================================================
>
> On 08/07/2013 12:36, And Rosta wrote:
>>
>> On Jul 8, 2013 7:51 AM, "R A Brown" wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>>
>>> If _vēnī_ means in itself "I came", it surely follows
>>> that _ego vēnī_ means something more than just "I came"
>>> - it does. If one wanted to be literal I guess "_I_
>>> came" would suffice.
>>
>>
>> In an earlier message you said _ego_ would be topic
>> (IIRC). "_I_ came" focuses _I_.
>
>
> True - thanks for pointing that out.  It's this 'literal
> translation' nonsense, which has bedeviled this thread, that
> misled me.
>
> Yes, in Latin topic gets fronted if the author thinks it
> needs emphasis, and focus would normally be shifted to the
> end.  So, as you rightly observe, _ego vēnī_ is not really
> "_I_ came"; that would be _vēnī ego_ (yes, subjects may well
> be placed after the verb).
>
>
>> So better literal renderings might be: As for me, I came.
>>  Me, I came.
>> I came, me.
>> I came, I did.
>> I came, I did, me.
>
>
> Yep - I think I prefer the first two.  So we have:
> _vēnī_ = I came
> _vēnī ego_ = _I_ came/ 'Tis I who came.
> _ego vēnī_ = Me, I came/ As for me, I came.
>
> Let G-B do what it wants with those three   ;)
> ========================================================
>
>
> On 08/07/2013 13:42, taliesin the storyteller wrote:
>>
>> On 07/08/2013 12:48 PM, George Corley wrote:
>>>
>>> Linguistic theories are by necessity simplified models,
>>> and often are incomplete or confusing.
>>
>>
>> Even better, there's at least one new theory/framework
>> every decade.
>
>
>         :-D
>
>
>> GB is old hat by now.
>
>
> Not surprised   ;)
>
> --
> Ray
> ==================================
> http://www.carolandray.plus.com
> ==================================
>
> "language … began with half-musical unanalysed expressions
> for individual beings and events."
> [Otto Jespersen, Progress in Language, 1895]

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