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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  July 2013, Week 3

CONLANG July 2013, Week 3

Subject:

Rolling your R's

From:

"H. S. Teoh" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 16 Jul 2013 23:01:26 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (52 lines)

I've always wanted to pronounce trills, and for many years I tried to
learn it with all kinds of techniques and suggestions from people, but
all to no avail.  Up until about a week or two ago, the only trill I've
ever been able to produce is the bilabial trill.

But about a week or so ago, while trying to figure out how exactly
_ehrlu_ should be pronounced in my new alien conlang (something like
/Exrlu/ where the /r/ is some kind of trill), I somehow accidentally
stumbled upon a guttural, voiceless trill of some sort, which I shall
refer to henceforth as /xr/. I still can't consistently produce it, but
the combination [Exr] somehow gets my vocal apparatus in (or near) the
state required for trilling, so once in a while a trill comes out.

I still have no idea what exactly /xr/ is. It is voiceless, and involves
some rather guttural sounds. I *think* it's an uvular trill, but it may
be a mixture of uvular + alveolar trill. Or maybe it's [x] followed by a
voiceless [r]?  How do you tell the difference between an uvular trill
and an alveolar trill?  I know that in theory [R\] is trilling the uvula
whereas [r] is trilling the tip of the tongue, but the way I'm
pronouncing /xr/ seems like some kind of hybrid between the two. The tip
of my tongue is actually pulled quite far back in the mouth, almost
palatal -- I can't get any trill at all if I move my tongue any farther
forwards. The vibration starts out somewhere far back in my throat, and
sometimes moves forward to the tip of the tongue.

Do y'all have trouble pronouncing trills? And if not, what kind of
trill(s) can you pronounce, and how?

After accidentally discovering /xr/ (whatever it is), I managed after
much effort to shift things about to be able to say /Er:/ with what I
believe is an alveolar trill. But I still have trouble consistently
producing this sound, and I still can't pronounce it with other sounds
(or at least, only with great difficulty).  The only way I manage to
trill my /r/ is by pulling my tongue quite far back in the mouth, with
the tip of my tongue curled up to an almost vertical position; this is a
rather inconvenient position to be combined with many vowels/consonants.
Because of this, I'm a bit unsure whether it's a real *alveolar* trill,
and not a dorsal palatal trill or something (is there such a thing?).

Any tips/ideas? :)

Also, why aren't there IPA symbols for voiced/voiceless trills? I can
clearly pronounce both voiced and voiceless variants of /r/, and /xr/,
whatever it is, is clearly voiceless. But AFAICT, the only IPA symbols
for trills are [r] and [R\]?


T

-- 
Designer clothes: how to cover less by paying more.

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