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CONLANG  July 2013, Week 3

CONLANG July 2013, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Rolling your R's

From:

Roger Mills <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Roger Mills <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 17 Jul 2013 05:18:05 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (43 lines)

From: H. S. Teoh <[log in to unmask]>



But about a week or so ago, while trying to figure out how exactly
_ehrlu_ should be pronounced in my new alien conlang (something like
/Exrlu/ where the /r/ is some kind of trill), I somehow accidentally
stumbled upon a guttural, voiceless trill of some sort, which I shall
refer to henceforth as /xr/. I still can't consistently produce it, but
the combination [Exr] somehow gets my vocal apparatus in (or near) the
state required for trilling, so once in a while a trill comes out.
=========================================
RM I can do [xr] or maybe [Xr] but I note that the velar/uvular pulls the tongue tip back towards the hard palate....
=================================

I still have no idea what exactly /xr/ is. It is voiceless, and involves
some rather guttural sounds. I *think* it's an uvular trill, but it may
be a mixture of uvular + alveolar trill. Or maybe it's [x] followed by a
voiceless [r]?  
================================
RM that's probably what I'm doing
=================================

How do you tell the difference between an uvular trill
and an alveolar trill? 
===================
RM Oh my, just listen to any recording of Edith Piaf vs. any recording of a Spanish or Italian speaker!!!!
===========================
(snip)

Do y'all have trouble pronouncing trills? And if not, what kind of
trill(s) can you pronounce, and how?
==================================
RM Try as I might, I cannot produce the uvular trill of Parisian French (except when gargling ;-(((( )  though I can do uvular stops and fricatives without a problem. When I try to "sound French (or German)", my r's usually come out as a velar fricative.  OTOH I've never had any trouble with the alveolar trill/tap in Spanish, Italian or Indonesian..... go figure !!
=========================================

Also, why aren't there IPA symbols for voiced/voiceless trills? I can
clearly pronounce both voiced and voiceless variants of /r/, and /xr/,
whatever it is, is clearly voiceless. But AFAICT, the only IPA symbols
for trills are [r] and [R\]?
================================
RM Perhaps because they are (or were once thought to be) rare in languages of the world. Anyhow, there's a "voiceless" diacritic.

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