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CONLANG  July 2013, Week 3

CONLANG July 2013, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Creoles

From:

Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 17 Jul 2013 13:27:45 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (90 lines)

Right. I figure, I don't really know how Creoles work.

Mellissa Green


@GreenNovelist

-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Garth Wallace
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 1:02 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Creoles

It would have to be a creole between Yardish and something else.

But you would have to pin down Yardish before you could address any
descendant languages.

On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 7:00 AM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I can't begin to have a Creole for Yardish.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Mellissa Green
>
>
> @GreenNovelist
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of R A Brown
> Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 9:45 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Creoles
>
> On 17/07/2013 05:33, MorphemeAddict wrote:
>> My understanding is that it means taking the lexicon
>> from one language (primarily) and the grammar from
>> another (primarily).
>
> certainly if one of the languages is perceived as more
> prestigious than the other, vocabulary will tend to come
> from the prestigious language; but there will be odd bit
> from the other language or, indeed, languages.
>
> Creoles often have grammatical features that are not common
> to either parent language.
> =======================================================
>
> On 17/07/2013 13:01, Roger Mills wrote:
>> And I think it could involve phonological borrowing too.
>
> Most certainly.
>
> [interesting stuff snipped]
>
>> Question for Ray Brown-- is that how koine Greek arose,
>> or is said to have arisen???
>
> Yes, same sort of way.  It developed from the Greek taken by
> Alexander's soldiers and reinforced by traders and settlers
> in the conquered territories.
>
> It was based on the Greek of Athens, as this was seen as a
> more prestigious dialect than others; but features which
> were peculiarly Attic got ironed out with 'more acceptable'
> pan-Hellenic features from the other Ionic dialects. For
> example, the peculiarly Attic θάλασττα (thálatta) was
> replaces by Ionic θάλασσα (thalassa).
>
> During the time of its use it was modified by the speech
> habits of L2 speakers; this was probably why pitch accent
> gave way during the roman period to stress accent.
>
> But it was a Koine, not a Creole.  It is not improbable that
> in seaports, for example, Greek-based pidgins become
> creolized, but we have no record of any such creoles.
>
> --
> Ray
> ==================================
> http://www.carolandray.plus.com
> ==================================
> "language … began with half-musical unanalysed expressions
> for individual beings and events."
> [Otto Jespersen, Progress in Language, 1895]

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