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CONLANG  July 2013, Week 3

CONLANG July 2013, Week 3

Subject:

Re: "Even if"

From:

Lisa Weißbach <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 19 Jul 2013 04:19:44 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (136 lines)

Hi!

Tania Kuteva calls these kinds of constructions "inconsequential", a
grammatical category which is used to express that an action was taken in
vain, i.e. that it didn't lead to the expected or wished-for consequences.
This was actually one of the topics for my oral final exam a few years ago,
which is why she sent me an introductory manuscript in which she cites
examples from Papua New Guinea language Hua:

hako-mana-(o)
seek-1SG-INCONSEQUENTIAL-(CLAM.VOC)
'I sought (but couldn't find)!'
'I looked (in vain)!'*

Ke-hu-mana. (Kmivaro' a'bre)
talk-do.1-INCONSEQUENTIAL
'I talked to him: (but he didn't listen to me.)'**

*cited from Haiman, John 1988. Inconsequential clauses in Hua and the
typology of clauses. In: Haiman, John and Sandra Thompson (eds.) 1988.
Clause combining in grammar and discourse. Amsterdam: John Benjamins, pp.
49-69, here: p. 53.

**cited from Haiman, John 1980. HUA: A Papuan language of the Eastern
Highlands of New Guinea. Amsterdam: John Benjamins B.V., here: p. 158.
(Yes, the punctuation looks like that in the manuscript.)

Apparently, Haiman describes pre-contact Hua as not even having a word for
"try" - although there was a conative morpheme, which could actually be
combined with the inconsequential morpheme:

Ke-hu-ko-mana (Kta d hau re)
talk-do-CONATIVE-INCONSEQUENTIAL
'I tried to talk (but it was too hard for me to do so).' (Haiman 1980: 159)

Russian seems to have a similar category usually referred to as the
"unsuccessful conative" where a verb in the imperfect is contrasted with
the same verb in a negated perfect form: V.IMPERFECT but not V.PERFECT 'I
tried to V but in the end I didn't V'. This contrast highlights the
counterfactual modality of the imperfect, which chimes with your choice of
an imperative morphology since the imperative also has a counterfactual
feel to it.

The Romanian presumptive mood can in some cases express a similar meaning:

Nu vă uitaţi la mine, da-mi place, fraţilor, ţigancă o fi, treaba ei.
Don't be upset, my friends, I have to tell you that I like her - she may be
a gypsy, so what?***

***Ganea, Alina and Anca Gâţâ 2008: Equivalences of the Romanian
Presumptive Verbal Form in French. In: Croitoru, Elena and Floriana Popescu
(eds.): Translation Studies: Retrospective and Prospective Views.
Proceedings of the Third Conference (Third Volume). Year I, issue 3.
Galaţi: Galaţi University Press, pp. 97-103, here: p. 102. (The English
translation is mine; it's based on the French translation given in the
article, since I don't speak Romanian.)

English more commonly uses lexical means to express this meaning, such as
in phrases like "no matter what/where/when", "no use V-ing", "so what?",
"for all I care", "just the same",...

What you're describing seems to me to be semantically similar to this
inconsequential category - the action of you coming here is expected to
result in me not shattering your glass dome, but this expectation is not
met because I will still shatter it, whether you come or not. Your last two
examples are a bit trickier to fit into this scheme, though, because
language is taking a mental shortcut here: the most important bit of
information is left out, namely that the "action taken in vain" is the mere
prospective thought of many-eyed monsters or a catastrophe assumed to
prevent the speaker from "going out there" or "doing this" now, not the
monsters or the catastrophe themselves (because they haven't
appeared/happened yet - so how could they prevent anyone from doing
anything now?). Still, I think that the semantics are comparable enough
(hey, that sentence was an inconsequential too - once you've got to know
them, you'll start seeing them everywhere).

Hope that helps - or that it is at least a push in the right direction :)

Lisa


2013/7/18 H. S. Teoh <[log in to unmask]>

> What's the linguistic term for conjunctions like "even if", or "be it
> that ..."?
>
> I've discovered the first multi-clause construction in my alien conlang,
> in which an indicative clause is coupled with an imperative/hortative
> construction, but the latter isn't interpreted as an imperative, but
> rather an "even if" kind of meaning.
>
> For starters, here's how imperatives are constructed:
>
>         ang     tzapjakmi  shestu.
>         ang     tzapjak-mi shest-tu.
>         IMP.2SG feet-V     here-DAT
>         [You(sg)] come over here!
>
> Here's a simple indicative clause:
>
>         tseŋmi    gruŋgen        itseŋteku
>         tseŋ-mi   gruŋ-en        itseŋ-tek-u
>         shatter-V hands-1SG.POSS glass_dome-2SG.POSS-PAT
>         I shatter your glass dome (with my hands).
>
> If we append the first clause to the second, the meaning of the
> imperative construction changes:
>
>         tseŋmi    gruŋgen        itseŋteku,              ang
> tzapjakmi  shestu.
>         tseŋ-mi   gruŋ-en        itseŋ-tek-u             ang
> tzapjak-mi shest-tu
>         shatter-V hands-1SG.POSS glass_dome-2SG.POSS-PAT even_if.2SG
> feet-V     here-DAT
>         I [will] shatter your glass dome (with my hands), even if you come
> here!
>
> The use of the imperative/hortative construction appears to be a kind of
> strengthening, threat, or disregard: You come here, and I'll *still*
> shatter your glass dome!
>
> Similar constructions can be used to express such sentiments as:
> "I'm flying out to the warzone, whether or not the enemy comes"; or
> "I'm going out there, let the many-eyed monsters come if they may!"; or
> "I'm gonna do this, let catastrophe result if it will!"
>
> What's the term for this type of construction? Emphatic? Some kind of
> subjunctive perhaps?
>
>
> T
>
> --
> If it tastes good, it's probably bad for you.
>

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