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CONLANG  September 2013, Week 1

CONLANG September 2013, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Colloquial French resources

From:

Aidan Grey <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 3 Sep 2013 16:43:21 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (90 lines)

On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Alex Fink <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I think gender might end up disappearing as
> >a useful category in Wassa...
>
> Would it survive in verbal inflexion, though?  _il_ and _elle_ might not
> merge.  And that ought to be enough to make persist the category.
>

I was thinking that gendered independent pronouns would likely remain, but
otherwise, gender as a grammatical category would disappear.


>
>
> On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 12:44:16 -0600, Aidan Grey <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> Is /R/ in fact the most frequent liaising consonant in present spoken
> French?  My guess (through experience only with book French) would've been
> that it's /z/, with one of /n R t/ in second -- and for that matter, that
> something like /t/ is the most "unmarked", whatever in the world that
> means.  Or does the syntactic distribution in contexts that survive into
> Wassa somehow tilt this?
>

It's not the semantic tilt, but the prevalence of the guttural R, which
becomes /x/, then a glottal stop (at least, finally it does). /n/ and /t/
are definitely in the running too. /z/ will collapse with /s/... I think. I
haven't worked out whether the default "liaison" consonant will be
phonologically or semantically constrained yet.


> Are you really positing /x/ > /?/ > /k/?  It feels a stretch to me, and
> Duke-of-Yorky besides.  It's extremely hard to resurrect a glottal stop
> into anything with oral obstruction, so I suppose that part has to be a
> reversal of direction of an original change [k] > [?] of some sort.  And
> it's strange too for the continuant [x] to go to the noncontinuant [?],
> rather than [h].
>

 I'm positing stops > ? finally. /x/ > /h/, but /k/ in liaison
environments, and it remains there once the liaison is eroded. That's the
idea at the moment, anyway.

/x/ > /?/,  > /k/ is not so weird - it has happened in Modern Irish, for
one. It's not /x/ > /?/ > /k/, but > /?/ in one environment, and /k/ in
another (specifically, liaison / before a vowel across word boundary).


> What does _kahteshu_ represent phone*ically?  (I kinda hope "sh" isn't a
> digraph for [S]; if you ask me it's a gross one, and current French
> orthography's "ch" for [S] is much more aligned with the grain of the Roman
> alphabet in its gamut of usage.)
>

/ka.htE.Su/ where h is preaspiration, for which I forget the XSampa at the
moment.

Sorry - I'm an Americanist when it comes to anything polysynthetic. :)
Plus, I'm leaving french orthography is the past, far in the past. In
Wassa, the orthography has been rebuilt from scratch. I am thinking that
ultimately, /S/ will be represented with [x], a la Pinyin.


>
> Eh, I might as well come out and ask the whole question: what are your
> posited sound changes?
>
>
Don't have a lot figured out yet.

- /R/ > /x/ > do all sorts of things, depending on environment.
Preaspiration and devoicing for sure.
- diphthongs in jV and wV  (I think that's the falling diph., but I can
never remember) will disappear, the former through palatization, the latter
through.... I dunno.
- loss of lots of voicing distinctions
- loss of nasalization on vowels - compensatory lengthening in response,
which before C will induce gemination. (this is where the -ss- of Wassa
comes from). Ultimately, falling diphthongs will return via breaking, and
long vowels will fade away.
- introduction of devoiced laterals ( < /xl/ - Arles might become Alh,
frex.)
- vowel simplification and probably affection as well

Those are the big gestures at the moment.

Aidan

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