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CONLANG  September 2013, Week 1

CONLANG September 2013, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Colloquial French resources

From:

Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 3 Sep 2013 09:17:28 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (85 lines)

On 2 September 2013 22:50, Aidan Grey <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Thank you, Christophe! Polypersonalism is the main reason Wassa is going
> polysynthetic. And thank for your offer of additional explanation!
>
>
You're welcome :).


> I do have a question or two other than Polyperson agreement:
>
> - What is happening with gender, as a generality? Are they staying strong?
> Merging? Diverging along different lines? Expanding / multiplying?
>
>
Despite the difficulties outlined in previous posts of this thread (i.e.
what happens when grammatical and referent gender don't match), gender
remains strong in French. The masculine/feminine distinction shows no sign
of eroding, nor any sign of breaking up into more genders. Indeed, the
latest trend (in France at least) has been to *add* gendered variants,
especially to nouns of professions that existed only in one gender.
Nowadays all have both a masculine and a feminine variant (in some cases
those are identical in form, resulting in effectively epicene nouns, like
the noun _ministre_: "minister", which can now be used both with _le_ and
_la_, solving the issue of the very awkward _madame le ministre_).
What does seem to happen though is the reclassification of somewhat
uncommon nouns based on shape, i.e. nouns switch gender compared to their
gender in Written French because they are not commonly used, and their
shape suggests the other gender (due to analogy with more common nouns).
Another interesting phenomenon when it comes to gender is the
reclassification of gender of entire *phrases* based on the effective
referent. Let me give an example: in Spoken French expression starting with
_espèce de..._ are very common. They are difficult to translate, ranging
from meanings like "some kind of..." to effectively augmentatives (but
always with some kind of pejorative meaning, or at least slightly
denigrating). Examples are _espèce d'imbécile_ (used vocatively, it means
"what an idiot!", but it can also be used in a sentence), _espèce de
voiture_: "some kind of car", etc. The interesting thing about such
expressions is that the head of those phrases is the noun _espèce_, which
is feminine in French. So one would expect _une espèce d'imbécile_, _une
espèce de voiture_, etc. But in Spoken French, the gender of such phrases
is normally the gender of the actual referent, i.e. the gender of the noun
used as modifier to the _espèce de..._ phrase! In other words, if
_imbécile_ refers to a male (it's an adjective used nominally, and
epicene), one will normally say _un espèce d'imbécile_ (with the masculine
indefinite article rather than the feminine one!). It's as if _espèce
de..._ has lost its grammatical status and behaves like a prefix rather
than like a head noun.
this phenomenon isn't restricted to _espèce de..._: other similar
expressions have the same behaviour. Although most of them belong to
impolite language, so I will refrain from naming them unless pushed :P.


> - Adjectives: in spoken french, I understand that most adjectives have one
> form, for all genders and numbers (an example being
> turc/turque/turcs/turques for 'Turkish', all pronounced /tyRk/. How strong
> is that? Is it accurate?
>
>
It's accurate as long as you don't factor in *liaison*. But then things get
complicated in that when does liaison happen is a complex issue, that
depends both on the phonological and grammatical environment, and the
actual words in question. Liaison is not a purely phonological phenomenon.

Also, "most adjectives" might be a bit exaggerated. Still quite a lot of
commonly (and less commonly) used adjectives have at least different
masculine and feminine forms, although most don't change in the plural
indeed.


> Besides these obvious bits (and pas alone for negation), are there any
> other details that differ markedly from literary French? Anywhere I can
> look for a list / explanation of the major points of difference?
>
>
So many! If you can locate _Colloquial French Grammar: a practical guide_
by Rodney Ball, I advise you to have a look at it. It's not perfect, but
it's good enough as a starting point :). I couldn't even start to give you
a list, as the differences are everywhere :).
-- 
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.

http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/

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