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CONLANG  September 2013, Week 2

CONLANG September 2013, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Choosing a word for "German"

From:

Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 8 Sep 2013 10:20:50 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (118 lines)

>> Quite, though I'd suspect something a little older,

>> maybe something closer to harjamanniz.
>
> Well, yes ... Obviously the German of the 1st millennium BC was
> somewhat different  ;)

Only somewhat!

> I know this thread began as a request for advice for Asirka.
> But presumably many other conlangs have had to confront the
> same issue.  How have you gone about it?

In the Eastlands, the usual hodgepodge of traditional names that come
from time out of mind, appellations that may or may not have anything
to do with what other people call themselves, some outright derogatory
names, some broad geographical and ethnographical misapplications,
some mythological names and a couple genuine ethnonyms thrown in
for good measure.

For example, the Rumen call their Germanic neighbors "Ontimonies",
which itself is a rather old-fashioned way of saying "Avantimun-", there
having been a couple broad areal sound shifts along the way. But the
Avantimen call themselves, surprise, surprise, Thêdafulc, "People of
this Country". Ônutumun was and ancient name for the region along
the coasts of Ocean the people of which no longer live there, having
sailed away many centuries ago. They left behind beautiful stonework
and well laid out cities. Of their languages, few traces remain, mostly
the names of places and rivers, most of which have now been quite
mangled by the earlier newcomers and now applied to the Germanic
people(s) living in those cities and lands. But that's okay, because the
Avantimen themselves refer to their Italic neighbours as "Rumeliardo",
after the name of a character in a play (Hulyús and Rumiyelle), the
action of which takes place in Rumnias. They call themselves by
various ancient regional names: Rumniai, Campagniai, Pountiai and
Iconicai.

Mentolatum, curiously enough, and quite apart for being named after
a brand of ache-n-pain liniment, was one of the first places I knew much
about in the World. Its original name was probably not Muntulatuz,
but has become so after long association. It means "(Land that) Exports
Mint": munt = mint, dlatun = send away, export. Their national motto
is "Qua trevi, i-dnandu fi-londinno muntu og-ronu": Of herbs, for mankind’s
wellbeing mint (is) the acme. Everyone else calls them some variant of
this native name, e.g., Muntolazardo in Avantimannish, Menthomanni in
Rumnian.

The Talarians call themselves "Talaryâs", "Lords of the Earth". Everyone
else calls them some variation. They, as well as the Husickites, Heclans
and some others in the region are also called "Oritanians", or account of
that being the name of the region their countries are in. Oriata was the
name of an ancient country as well as language family.

Daine have usually been called "Wildings" (nice) or "Bird People"
(not so nice) depending and rarely are accorded different ethnic
or national names.  They call themselves by a myriad of ethnic, regional,
national, tribal and family names, which have traditionally only been much
used by anthropologers. The name Daine itself comes from an ancient
word, tana, meaning "person"(*).  The people of Westmarche, for example,
are Sharrundaine, the people whose eyes "shine like Selanna", the bright
blue and green little sister of Gea. Most of the Daine of the Eastlands are
Troaghladaine, the "people who serve", from an old word meaning slave.
None now recall why this should be so. In the marches to the east and
southeast of Westmarche, there live some "dog-faced Daine", who have
long faces and exaggerated canines. Dunno what they call themselves.
In Avantimannish, they are properly called Dênez. The Daine of
Auntimoany call themselves Hautherdaine which means "people of seas
and ships", and the Men around them call them "searats and deep divers"
with the utmost of respect. They are fine mariners and have a practical
monopoly on the diving and recovery industries. The Men of Auntimoany
also call the Westmarchers "skyboyos", and with largely the same sense
of awe. They are top rate aviators and are the inventors of the great
airships that wander into the skies of the Uttermost West, or else beyond
the stretches of Ocean towards the sunrise.

(*) The Daine, in the most ancient times, knew only of tana (speaking
ones, and could be related to the root word tanal, tongue) and namay
(non-speaking ones, either plant or animal). They didn't quite know
what to make of the Teor when they first met them, nor Men when
they burst on the scene. Even now, there is some continuing debate
over whether the babble of so many Men ought to count as speaking
proper, or just like the sounds animals make to communicate. Some
have suggested that Men ought to be likened to the harcu, the animal
that seems to talk, the Dog. (Harcain, to bark or yammer like a dog +
-cu, an animal classifier)

Just about anyplace farther west than Codeis, beyond which there is little
more than Forest, is either unnamed or else has some dimly half-remembered
legendary name. When you do come to (human) civilisation again, in the
regions of Ehrran, and all those various Judeo / Buddho / Sindho / Parsawo-
Helladic kingdoms that dot the region. The whole populace is known variously
as "People of the Great Western Empire" or "Atelanteans" (both Hither and
Yonder). There is, of course, no Great Western Empire (though pharaoh
(Ankh-Alexandra IV (peace, long life and everlasting her reign!)) might wish it
were otherwise); this is just a catch-all term for a group of places so far away
that they become mingled in the common expression. Anyway, after the great
natural disasters the region has suffered, the subsequent wars and the
environmental destruction her empire has wrought of late, it's small wonder she
has any empire to rule over at all.

> Outidic was inspired by Labbé's 17th century "Lingua
> Universalis."  Of names of peoples & nations he wrote:
> "Nomina habitantium regiones provincias &c. prius quærenda
> sunt, ut ex iis loca ipsa formentur aliaque ex iis
> deriventur" (names of those inhabiting regions, provinces
> &c. are to be sought first so that from them may be formed
> the places themselves and other things may be derived."  He
> give as an example:
> Franc = a French person
> Francè = France
> Francì = French [adj.] etc.

There is something to be lauded in this: short, sweet and to the point!

> Ray

Padraic

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