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CONLANG  September 2013, Week 2

CONLANG September 2013, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Anglicizing Your Conlang's Autoglottonym

From:

Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 9 Sep 2013 11:23:51 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (114 lines)

>Ah, yes, I ought to have mentioned: I designate anglicized names for all my conlangs 
>because they are intended for use in stories, and thus public consumption. As much 
>as I'd love to talk about linguistics for hours, the middle of the story is not the time.

Quite. In that case, I'd definitely keep it as simple as possible, for the target audience.
In this case, I think very few people would have a problem with "Laa Siri", and I, at
least, wouldn't even bother with the "Lh" spelling. I'm not sure what sound [ł] 
represents — something like that Welsh lateral hiss? If so, most English speakers will
be unfamiliar with the sound, and anyway, "Ll", "Lh" and "L" are all going to be
pronounced about the same. You mìght try "Hla Siri", which would at least give a
hint of the hissiness.

I've never been a fan of overly complicated anglification schemes in fiction writing.
There just simply comes a point when readers, confronted by fourteen diacritics,
tone marks, breathing marks and length marks on every other vowel, will simply
give up trying to make heads or tails of your conlang words. They will either skip
the obviously hard bits, or else, if there are too many passages of incomprehensible
gibberish, put the book down. Or worse, never pick it up (and pay for it!) in the
first place.

I say this as a conlanger and reader of SF/F. In my opinion as a reader, too much is
a put-off; well and not overly done is definitely a feather in your cap. I should be
transported to your world and immersed in your story — not forced to sit in on a
Conlang 101 course in the middle of the narrative! ;))

Padraic


>
>
>
>On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 10:56 PM, Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> (if this has been discussed elsewhere, please link me. I haven't seen it.)
>>
>>>
>>> I haven't ever had an anglicized autoglottonym for my conlang, łaá siri,
>>
>>Nor am I really certain why they would have one...
>>
>>To my way of thinking, an Anglification is really only useful for English
>>speakers, not for the people who speak the other language being named.
>>I mean, we call Deutsch "German". Why would the Germans want or need
>>to take that name, "German" and use it for any purposes other than using
>>it in an English language context, or describing how us foreigners call their
>>language. They would have no more use for it, auf Deutsch, than we would
>>for the French word "Anglais".
>>
>>That said...
>>
>>
>>> but recently I've been considering coining one. Not only is it unwieldy to
>>> type that ​<ł>, but saying it to those who don't understand sounds of
>>> other languages is too: /ɬɑꜛɑ siri/.
>>>
>>> I don't think that an English translation would sound right ("Language
>>> of the Sky People"?). Too long-winded and RPG-sounding for my purposes.
>>
>>Quite, though the definition is welcome!
>>
>>
>>> So I think the best way is to decide on a name like Siric (which wouldn't
>>> make sense in the conlang, really, but is an option) or maybe Lhaa
>>> (pronounced like /laa/). Maybe just retaining it as Lhaa Siri but, to be
>>> honest, it's aesthetically unappealing to me (kind of a butchery with my
>>> knowledge of the language).
>>>
>>> But how have others done this? It seems quite complicated to me.
>>
>>I thìnk what you're looking for now is simply an Anglicisation, or an English-
>>friendly version of the native name, not so much a Anglified autoglottonym.
>>Siric could work. (Sirian might also, but might be confused with Syrian.) I
>>have always read the name as /la siri/ without any fancy sounds, for whatever
>>it may be worth to you! :) But again, unless the Sirians come into contact
>>with English speakers, what use would that form of the name be to them?
>>
>>I would only note that exonyms of any kind never have to, and probably
>>most often do nòt "make sense in the conlang". "Anglais" doesn't really
>>make sense in English (though, in all honesty, most English speakers are
>>aware of its meaning in French), but that doesn't stop the French from
>>using a French name for our language! And why should it? It's their language
>>and they can name ours however they damn well please.
>>
>>For my part, English never comes in contact with any of my conlangs. They
>>happen on a different world among different stars, and so there is
>>no reason to invent an actual English exonym. Generally what I try to do is
>>either "capture the feel" of some in-world exonym and Anglify that, or else
>>take a known native name and Anglify that.
>>
>>Thus, with "Rumeliard", I am capturing the essence of the Avantimannish
>>exonym for the Rumnian language; and generally, I only use this name within
>>an Auntimoanian context. In a more general context, I would Anglify the native
>>name, i.e., Rumnian. With Tallarian, I am simply Anglifying the native name of
>>the language (tenxxwar talanusa), or perhaps better, the native name of the
>>people (talaryâs).
>>
>>None of them would ever use or even have any knowledge of these Anglicisations.
>>For the World, that wouldn't make any sense at all.
>>
>>Padraic
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Zach
>>>
>>>
>>> raa'lalí 'aa! - [sirisaá! <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conlang>]
>>>
>>
>
>
>

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