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CONLANG  September 2013, Week 2

CONLANG September 2013, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Teacher-Professor distinction in nat and conlangs

From:

Roger Mills <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Roger Mills <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:41:45 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (56 lines)

From: Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <[log in to unmask]>



What I can say is that in Moten the verb _ivajagi_ means both "to learn
(sthg)" and "to teach (sthg)" 
==================================
RM That reminds me-- Indonesian uses the same root for both-- /ajar/ which seems to have meant originally 'to train' ("horse" in some languages is a derivative, *ajar+an 'the trained one'). With the ber- prefix (customary action) it means 'to study; to learn'-- ia belajar bahasa inggeris 'he is studying English (language)'; with the active meng- pfx. it means 'to teach'-- ia mengajar bahasa inggeris 'he teaches English'.  The dictionary lists pelajar 'student' and pengajar 'teacher', but in my experience they use other words (borrowed) -- murid 'student', guru 'teacher' (these usually in the el-hi system); and (maha)siswa 'univ. student'; I guess guru can be used for a univ. teacher, but there's also profesor ~ prof, dokter, and various titles e.g. pak dekan '(mr.) dean'. Indonesia (perhaps modeled on the Dutch system?) had a lovely title - doktorandus-- for those who had only their sarjana (Master's equiv)...and lots of them were teaching at the univ.
 level. (Over here we called that A.B.D.-- see further below).
(snips)
=============================
(leonardo):
> Many French people I have met usually find strange that university
> "teachers" are called  "professor" in Brazil, even young Master
> students working as substitutes ("professor substituto").
>
>
That's because in France, as well as in the Netherlands and I believe in
most (all?) Western European universities (and I believe the US have
similar rules, although I'm not sure about that), "professor" is a title
you must earn through your work (like "doctor" is a title you can only use
if you have a Ph.D.), 
============================
RM or an M.D or other medical field!! Most Ph.Ds, at least here in the US, eschew use of the title outside the univ. environment, because the general public tends to associate "doctor" exclusively with an M.D. .

The rankings in the US are as follows: "adjunct professor" is common now, and is usually a part-time job, with no tenure possibilities, and probably will not lead anywhere...."teaching assistant" can involve teaching actual courses, but implies you don't yet have your doctorate.  In the system itself, you start at "assistant prof." (tenure-track or not); after 6yrs, if a promotion/tenure isn't in the offing, you'd better look for another job....The next rung up is (tenured) associate prof., where you can stay for years before promotion (if at all) to full professor. Endowed professorships usually go to the top tenured guys, and include the name of the chair-- "Mills Professor of Indonesian Linguistics" (ha, dream on)....etc. When you retire you become "Prof. emeritus (-a)". If you quit or abandon academe, you might still be called "professor", but probably only by close friends, or if you had somehow became famous/controversial in your field.

(For those unfamiliar with the US, "tenure" means basically that you can't be fired, except for egregious misbehavior. Public el-hi teachers can also be tenured.)

When I was at U.Michigan, the linguistics department had what was claimed to be the world's only tenured "Asst. Prof." Apparently, somehow, he had managed to keep his position for 7+ years, at which time he became automatically tenured. That said, he was quite competent (and the only person in the dept. who knew/understood Chomsky in those early days), and was eventually appointed to assoc. prof. 
=============================

Leonardo:
> I have to explain that I'm kind of their "maître de conférence",
> otherwise they can't believe that a 32 years old guy can be a
> professor    .
>
Yeah, getting a title of professor before the age of 40 is actually
considered quite a feat. Most people who get it only get it after 20 to 30
years of experience in their field of study (which starts only *after* they
got their Ph.D.).
==============================

RM Well, that can depend :-))  Assuming you get the B.A when you're 22, then spend 6-7 years on your Master and/or Doctorate, then by age 30 you should be fully credentialed, and eligible for an asst. professorship, which does entitle you to be called "professor"....It used to be possible for someone who was A.B.D (all but doctorate) to get an asst. prof. job, but the implication was that you only had 6mos to a year before finishing your doctorate. In today's job market, that may no longer be possible.

For someone very bright, who finishes undergrad work by age 20 or so, that all moves up a few years.
===========================================

Now I finally understand why a good friend of mine (a Brazilian guy working
at the University of São Paolo, only 3 years older than me) could brag of
having received a title of professor years ago! And me thinking he was such
a genius! ;)
================================

RM It's possible that non-US systems are a little more rigid.....(status-ridden?)...

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