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CONLANG  October 2013, Week 2

CONLANG October 2013, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Melin's Swedish Shorthand -- for English! (was: Re: Gateway to conscripts (was: Intro to Conlanging by John McWhorter)

From:

"J. 'Mach' Wust" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 12 Oct 2013 12:08:41 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (95 lines)

On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 19:38:02 +0200, BPJ wrote:

>2013-10-10 23:26, J. 'Mach' Wust skrev:
...
>> The Stolze-Schrey system also marks double consonants,
>> but by using a third height (quadruple-height, by your counting) of
>> consonant signs. The Deutsche Einheitskurzschrift simply omits
>> consonant doubling. While this is kind of adequate to standard German
>> phonology, it means not marking (leaving up to context) the
>> distinction between "checked" and "free" vowels.
>
>Swedish is a bit different in that it actually has geminate
>consonants, although it is similar in that stressed vowels before
>a same-morpheme consonant cluster, including geminates, are
>short, while stressed vowels in an open syllable or in a syllable
>ending in a single consonant are long, while stressed vowels
>before a consonant and a morpheme boundary followed by a
>consonant (VC#C) vary lexically, lectally and depending on which
>morphemes are involved. Thus vowel length depends on stress and
>syllable- and morpheme structure. There are Swedish speakers who
>perceive vowel length as phonemic, but I don't think I ever had,
>since my Dialect1 has a lot of alternation of length in the same
>root when consonantal endings are added. Also my accent has little
>or no qualitative difference between short and long stressed vowels.

But you still have a quantitative difference? My accent keeps the
qualitative difference between what originally were high short and
long stressed vowels (for instance /ˈriːfː/ 'ripe' and /ˈɡ̊ɪb̥/
'give!'), but through processes of vowel shortening and lengthening
it has developed a secondary quantitative difference (for instance
through shortening in /ʒ̊rib̥/ 'write!' and through lengthening in
/b̥eʒ̊rɪːb̥/ 'description'), so now there are long and short pairs
that do not differ in quality for every stressed vowel.

...
>>> Thus St. Swedish _mossa_ /ˈmos:a/ 'moss' is /ˈmɞːsɑ/
>>> to me in dialectal mode (I code-switch a lot!) and _fågel_
>>> /ˈfoːgel/ 'bird' is /ˈfɞːgɛl/ to me -- and to some west Swedes
>>> it's even /ˈfɵgːɛl/ --, sometimes written _môsa, fôgel/fûggel_
>>> when writing dialect.
>>
>> The shift of length from the vowel to the consonant between /ˈfɞːgɛl/
>> and /ˈfɵgːɛl/ is a very interesting phenomenon. Is this regular with
>> all long vowels?
>
>Sort of. _Mossa_ was _mŏsa_ and _fågel_ was _fŭgl > fŭgel_ in
>Old Swedish, thus _mosa_ had and _fugl_ came to have a short
>stressed vowel followed by a single consonant. Around 1300 all
>such words were 'normalized' by either lengthening the vowel or
>geminating the consonant, and different dialects 'chose'
>differently for different words;

I see. Interesting.

...
>> Melin's way of using the connecting upstroke as real vowel letters
>> may well be more natural and practical than Faulmann's system. I will
>> not learn it, though, until after I have learnt Gregg's shorthand.
>> This system has always intrigued me as the most elegant of Western
>> shorthand systems.
>
>It certainly feels more natural once you've learned it, but has
>the downside that consonant signs other than the first in each
>word are written above or below the baseline depending on the
>height of the preceding vowel.  The resulting _klättereffekter_
>('climbing effects') can be bothersome, but are counterbalanced by
>breaking longer compounds (but with a smaller space than
>inter-word space between the parts!) The word _överläkarvikarie_
>'stand-in chief physician' is proverbial, but in practice it's
>abbreviated to ÖverLKVIK.

You are speaking about Melin's shorthand there? The same effects
occur heavily in Faulmann-type vocalization, too. Except worse,
since compounds are often not broken up. And I think Gregg has also
some of this effect.

...
>> The regular formation of the consonant+T clusters is a nice solution.
>> The German systems use a triple-height upwards stroke -- and drop the
>> +T in "Eilschrift".
>
>Final _-t_ is important in Swedish as it is the neuter singular
>adjective ending, adverb ending and supine ending. BTW many use
>special wide versions of D, T, St, J etc. for Nd Nt Nst, Nj etc.
>after E and Ä instead of the backwardsleaning signs.

So it may be more important than in German, where it mostly occurs
as third person verbal ending or as the weak verbs' past participle
ending. In both cases, it is often redundant, by the presence of a
third person pronoun or of the past past participle prefix ge-.

-- 
grüess
mach

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