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CONLANG  November 2013, Week 3

CONLANG November 2013, Week 3

Subject:

Re: The one word that's the same in any language...

From:

Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 17 Nov 2013 01:21:28 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (65 lines)

On 16 November 2013 02:11, Herman Miller <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>
> 1. Cha'palaa ?a:↓ 2. Icelandic ha↓ 3. Spanish e↗ 4. Siwu ã:↗ 5. Dutch
> h<$>\scale 60%\raster="rg2"\<$>↗ 6. Italian ε :↗ 7. Russian a: ↗ 8. Lao hã
> :↗ 9. Mandarin Chinese ã :↗ 10. Murrinh-Patha a :↗ 11. ‡Âkhoe Hai//om hε↗
> 12. Chintang hã↗ 13. Duna : ↗ 14. English hã↗ 15. French ↗ 16. Hungarian
> hm↗/ha↗ 17. Kri ha:↗ 18. Tzeltal hai↗ 19. Yélî Dnye ↗ 20. Yurakaré æ↗ 21.
> Lahu hãi↓ [38] 22. Tai/Lue hč↗/há↗ [92] 23. Japanese e↗ [93] 24. Korean e↗
> [94] 25. German h↗ [95] 26. Norwegian h↗ [96] 27. Herero e↗ [97] 28.
> Kikongo e↗ [98] 29. Tzotzil e↗ [99] 30. Bequia Creole ha:↗ [100] 31.
> Zapotec aj↗ [101].
>
> From the image in Table 1, Dutch is [hɜ↗], so I guess they tried to scale
> down a “3” and failed. The Duna and Yélî Dnye examples look like [ɛ̀ː↗] and
> [ɛ̀↗]. French also looks like [ɛ̀↗] and German is [hɛ̀↗] ... maybe those
> ɛ’s with an indistinct mark over them are supposed to be nasalized [ɛ̃].


That'd make sense in French, where the word is indeed /ɛ̃/, usually written
"hein" (silent 'h', common in interjections). The intonation is also right.

Notice, though, that as a child, I was always corrected when I used it: "on
dit pas 'hein ?', on dit 'comment ?'": "we don't say 'huh?', we say 'how?'"
(yes, 'how', not 'what'. Using "quoi ?" is also considered impolite).


> In any case there’s that Zapotec [aj↗]. I don’t think they all count as
> “the same” by any means.
>
>
Indeed. It's "the same" for a very weird definition of "same".


> What they’ve actually found is an absence of high, back, or rounded vowels
> in their sample, which is an interesting result, but not as significant as
> what was claimed.
>
> Just to be different, I think I’ll make “ku” the Tirelat translation of
> “huh”.
>

In Moten it's _ejo_, pronounced as in IPA (with the stress on the second
syllable). One of the first interjections I created in Moten, it's been in
the language for nearly 20 years.

On 16 November 2013 10:51, Siva Kalyan <[log in to unmask]>wrote:

>
> However, the article does suggest that the vowel in the huh? word tends to
> be the most frequently attested vowel in the language; p. 7 cites evidence
> that this is the case for Spanish (¿e?). Frequency can of course be defined
> cross-linguistically.
>
>
Fails for French already. [ɛ̃] is far from the most frequent vowel in the
language. I'm not sure of the vowel frequency list of French, but I
wouldn't be surprised if [ɛ̃] was in the lower half of the list (except
maybe for those speakers that have completely replaced [œ̃] with [ɛ̃]).
-- 
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.

http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/

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