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CONLANG  November 2013, Week 3

CONLANG November 2013, Week 3

Subject:

Re: The one word that's the same in any language...

From:

Leonardo Castro <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 17 Nov 2013 11:18:46 -0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (88 lines)

2013/11/17 Leonardo Castro <[log in to unmask]>:
> It's strange that Spanish Wiktionary says that "huh" is "um" or "uf":
>
>  !um¡, !uf¡, usado para indicar interrogación, confusión,
> incredulidad, sorpresa, desdén.
> http://es.wiktionary.org/wiki/huh
>
> I guess it's "ahn" in pt-BR, pronounced as /ã/ , [ɐ̃] with rising pitch.

I believe a "hmm?", with lips closed, would also work.

>
> Até mais!
>
> Leonardo
>
>
> 2013/11/16 Siva Kalyan <[log in to unmask]>:
>> Sorry—actually, the article doesn’t say anything about “neutral vowels” (I misremembered that), and you’re right that it may not be possible to define such a concept cross-linguistically.
>>
>> However, the article does suggest that the vowel in the huh? word tends to be the most frequently attested vowel in the language; p. 7 cites evidence that this is the case for Spanish (¿e?). Frequency can of course be defined cross-linguistically.
>>
>> According to the article, the huh? word has an initial [h] only in those languages which have /h/ as a phoneme (and has an initial glottal stop only in those languages which have a glottal stop as a phoneme).
>>
>> Note that the word in question isn’t defined in terms of a particular phonetic form to begin with (thus you can still have a huh? word which doesn’t begin with [h], etc.). It’s defined only in terms of having a particular function (the “clarification question” function), so it’s not relevant here that in some dialects of English, “Huh” can have another function (with a different intonation, I might add).
>>
>> Siva
>>
>> On 16 November 2013 at 20:51:25, R A Brown ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
>>
>> On 16/11/2013 06:10, Siva Kalyan wrote:
>>> From what I understand, the point is not that the vowel
>>> tends to come from the same, restricted region of vowel
>>> space in every language—but rather that, whatever the
>>> vowel is, it is always the same as the language’s
>>> neutral vowel.
>>
>> Do all languages have a _neutral_ vowel? Obviously
>> languages with (heavy) word stress are likely to have one.
>> But what, e.g., was the neutral vowel in ancient Greek,
>> which had _tonal_ word accent? What is the neutral vowel
>> of, say, Spanish or Swahili?
>>
>> I don't think "neutral vowel" has a universal cross-language
>> meaning.
>>
>>> More generally, the “huh?” word always conforms to the
>>> language’s phoneme inventory and phonotactics,
>>
>> So what about languages with no neutral vowel, no aspirate etc.?
>>
>> Welsh, however, does have a neutral vowel /ə/, written _y_.
>> But in that language we find that _y_ (or _yr_ before
>> vowels) may be:
>> - the definite article;
>> - a relative particle;
>> - a preverbal particle used before certain affirmative parts
>> of the verb "to be"
>>
>> Now those are "real" words, but none mean "huh" :)
>>
>> (The latter two uses tend to be silent in the spoken
>> language, tho the preverbal particle does leave its r-
>> before a vowel.)
>>
>>> which is the main reason for considering it a “real”
>>> word, i.e. a part of the language, rather than “just
>>> noise”.
>>
>> Another problem, it seems to me, is that "huh" isn't used
>> the same way throughout the anglophone world. To me it's an
>> exclamation of (mild) disgust, disbelief etc. When I first
>> encountered it in the US being used as, basically, a
>> question particle, I thought "What's wrong with this guy?"
>> till I realized he wasn't disbelieving me or being rude - it
>> was merely a neutral, interrogative particle ;)
>>
>> I remain skeptical.
>>
>> --
>> Ray
>> ==================================
>> http://www.carolandray.plus.com
>> ==================================
>> If /ni/ can change into /ɑ/, then practically
>> anything can change into anything.
>> [YUEN REN CHAO]

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