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CONLANG  January 2014, Week 1

CONLANG January 2014, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Iberian Gothic

From:

Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 5 Jan 2014 17:37:16 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (85 lines)

Adam Walker <[log in to unmask]> wrote:


> Okay, I'm replying from my phone, so I can't snip to the appropriate
> parts. That said, I find myself disagreeing with Padraic this time
> (though I very often find myself agreeing). I don't at all like the
> buffetlang image and find it wholly inappropriate to the task.

Fair enough! I guess it isn't the only word to be deemed wholly inappropriate
to the task!

> HOWEVER, your use of the word chimera makes me think that therin might
> lie the perfect word for these beasties -- chimeralangs. That us
> rather what they are Latin disguised as Polish or German or Welsh
> through the uniting of two disparate animals. What say the group?

Well, when I say "chimera", I'm thinking of the real world chimera -- a person
(or I guess any living thing) that has in it discrete DNA of two (or maybe more)
individuals. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_%28genetics%29

Chimeralang has a nice ring to it, though.

Padraic



> 
> Adam
> 
> On 1/5/14, Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>  R A Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>>>   I call them "buffetlangs". Starting with the empty
>>>>>   plate of the newly inaugurated conlang project, you
>>>>>   just put a scoop from here and a heap from there until
>>>>>   done and pretty soon you have a right mess. Whether
>>>>>   it's a conlang or actual food in a cafeteria!
>>>  [snip]
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>   That seems to describe the wrong sort of thing to me- an
>>>>   art-pidgin or art-creole. Bogolangs are a very specific
>>>>   kind of mixture.
>>> 
>>>  Yep - the "buffetlang" approach has certainly been adopted
>>>  (and why not?), but IMO it is not appropriate for _bogolang_
>>>  which, as Logan points out, is not picking a bit from here,
>>>  there and everywhere; it is specifically grafting one
>>>  phonological development onto the base of another.
>> 
>>  The point being, picking and choosing is being done. Whether, like
>>  many children at a buffet, you pick only one or two items, or a whole lot 
> is
>>  really quite beside the point. The fact remains, the maker of a bogo / 
> graft
>>   / whatever language has chosen two particular items from the
>>  buffet: a substrate language (usually, in these cases, "Latin" 
> (loosely
>>  applied)) and a modifying ingredient from a locally displaced language (in
>>  all these cases, a system of more or less ill applied sound changes). He 
> has
>>  then rather indiscriminately mixed these unlikely ingredients on his plate
>>  and
>>  has produced a nifty conlang therefrom.
>> 
>>  Call em what you will. Buffet simply struck me as an entirely appropriate
>>  and rather less than insulting metaphor for what's actually happening. 
> To
>>  me, grafting implies a much more scientific approach. (Which, I certainly
>>  think could certainly be done, though I would hold that the result would be
>>  a pidgin > creole rather than a chimera).
>> 
>>  I'm not aware of any natural language that has had a completely alien
>>  system of diachronic phonology grafted onto it at some time in its past,
>>  and then has continued with that alien system incorporated within itself.
>>  Hm.
>>  Who knows? Maybe "bogus" isn't that bad of a fit after all?
>> 
>>  Padraic
>> 
> 

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