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CONLANG  February 2014, Week 2

CONLANG February 2014, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Split subject by telicity

From:

Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 06:39:17 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (71 lines)

PETER BLEACKLEY <[log in to unmask]> wrote:



>I've been thinking about a the possibility of a split subject system where the choice between Nom/Acc and Erg/Abs was made by the telicity of the verb. The question is, which way round should it go? I can think of arguments for both choices.


As I understand it, telicity is the property of completion or perfection/imperfection in a verb. This is
a very important concept in Talarian verbs where they have two broad categories. The Active verbs
would be, if I understand right, atelic: there is some sense of incompleteness or imperfection; the
action may be ongoing or in flux in some way. The Stative verbs would thus be telic: if there was ever
an action, it is now over and done with. Further subdivisions divide the former into "punctual" vs.
"durative" action and "resultive" vs. "nonresultive (or inherent)" state.


>Argument A
>Animate agents are more likely to be the agents of telic verbs, inanimate agents are more likely to be the agents of atelic verbs. Since agency is more marked on inanimates than animates, atelic verbs should take Erg/Abs, and telic verbs should take Nom/Acc.
>
>Argument B
>The result of a telic verb is important, so that makes the patient more salient, meaning it should be the unmarked argument with a telic verb, and the agent should be marked. Therefore, telic verbs should be Erg/Abs, atelic verbs should be Nom/Acc.

In Talarian, the nature of the verbal act is most salient: so the question is not so much who are the agent 

and patient (which I believe are marked in the normal non/acc way), but is the act "in motion" (imperfect)
or "at rest" (perfect/stative). The actual verbal conjugation chosen will thus be a reflection of the 

underlying nature of the verbal act. So, he doesn't choose, for example, "die" vs. "kill" vs. "murder". He
has only one verb to choose from, the precise meaning of which will depend on how he views the state
of the act.

I don't believe there is any difference in how the subject is marked with respect to the kinds of verbs:
nom. + ACTIVE = "he killed" while nom. + STATIVE = "he lies murdered". The only issue arises
when your agent is an inanimate noun. Then you have to mank about with phraseology: the word for
"father" is an inanimate noun, so you'd have to rephrase to something like "he (NOM) lies murdered
with respect to father". 


>Does anyone have any opinions on which of these arguments holds more water, or have any examples of natlangs that do something similar? I know that Austronesian languages have (to simplify things a lot) a voice system that switches the alignment between Erg/Abs and Nom/Acc. Does that involve telicity at all?


Not sure if that answers your question or just muddies the waters!

I'll quote what I have on active and stative verbs:

7a. Tallarian verbs do not have different conjugations in the same way many other modern Indo-European languages do.  There are two main types of verbs: Active and Stative; also known as Imperfective and Perfective.  The Statives describe the state something is in, and are considered to be gramatically perfective; while the Actives describe actions or events and are considered to be gramatically imperfective.  Each type has a characteristic conjugation with various tenses, moods and voices.  A certain number of verbs may be both Active and Stative; these are called Semistative verbs. They differ from simple Actives and Statives only in that a single root has an active “side” and a stative “side”, usually with quite different meaning or function.

7b.  Active verbs have two subtypes: the Punctual and the Durative; some verbs are inherently one or the other on semantic grounds, while a large number are both.  The primary and historical distinction between these two subtypes is that the sense of the Durative verbs is one of time and tense, while the sense of the Punctual verbs is one of aspect.  The Durative has two tenses, past and present; the Punctual has two aspects, aorist and habitual. 

Active verbs conjugate for voice, mood, tense (Durative verbs), aspect (Punctual verbs), person and number.  The voices are active and middle; the moods are indicative, subjunctive-optative, injunctive, precative and imperative (though not all moods are fully conjugated); the tenses of the Durative are past and present; the Punctual rightly has no tense distinction, but rather aspect, of which there are two primary ones: aorist and habitual; the persons are first, second and third; and the numbers are singular and plural (the dual having died out).  Secondary aspects may be made by affixing stem formations onto the Durative root, for which see the Syntax section.

There are two sets of personal endings which Active verbs may take: the primary and the secondary.  Primary endings were formerly only found on Durative indicatives, while secondary endings were found elsewhere.  Anymore, the primary endings have infected the punctual indicative; this it may be said that the primary endings are used with the indicative, while the secondary endings are used with all other moods (except the imperative, which has its own endings).

Note that -â is a 1st person singular primary, secondary and Stative ending.  Also note that the 3rd plural often takes -âr, which is a Stative ending that is increasingly used with Active verbs.

7c.  Stative verbs have two subtypes: the nonresultive, or neutral, and the resultive; based upon whether the the state is a result of some action or whether the state is not the result of an action.  The neutral or nonresultive describes a state that is not the result of some action, or else describes a state without any reference to outside actions; the resultive describes a state that is, in fact, the result of some outside action.  For example, mórta is nonresultive or neutral and means “is in the state of death”; while memórta is resultive and means “is in the state of death as the result of some action”.  There is some indication of an evolution of this “resultive/nonresultive” distinction towards a semantic distinction: for example, mórta continues to mean “is in the state of death”, while memórta at times has come to mean “is in the state of murder”. Stative verbs have no tense and no voice; they do however have
 several moods: indicative, optative and subjunctive (there is no injunctive or precative).  There are three persons (though the pronouns sets used for the Active and Stative verbs are different, q.v.); and two numbers.

7d.  Talarian is an Active language, which means that the subjects and objects of transitive verbs are marked in a conventional Accusative fashion. The animate subject of a transitive verb is in the nominative (agent or ergative) case, while the animate or inanimate object of a transitive verb is in the accusative (patient or absolutive) case. The animate subject of an intransitive active verb or of a stative verb may be in either the nominative or accusative (agent or patient) depending on the verbal semantic considerations of event versus state. Inanimate nouns may never take on the semantic role of agent, even if the word describes a person or other truly animate being.

Some unusual forms arise when the agent of a verb is an inanimate noun. For example, if a father takes a strap to his unruly son, it can be described thus: a-ffawatar hanar-co patana-so talamani-he; was struck the son by the father at the belt.

Many Talarian nouns are inherently animate, but grammatically inanimate, patar being one such example. Animals are animate beings, as are some things that seem to act with separate wills, such as forces of nature. Grammatically, those that are of the inanimate class may not take the role of verbal agent. For example, parcar, thunder. It is grammatically inanimate, and in order for it to take the role of verbal agent, some solution other than placing the word in the subject place is required. Several solutions are available. One common and elegant solution is to simply combine the inanimate thunder with some related but animate entity. Such binary compounds are very common, and that needs doing is to add the animate member on to the end of the inanimate one, yielding a perfectly animate (though now dual number) noun ready to take on the role of agency. So rather than parcar, we now have parcoharyo: thundering-lord-DU. This example also serves to emphasise
 the personification that is always implied by forces of nature.

Padraic

>Pete

>
>

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October 2002, Week 1
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