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CONLANG  February 2014, Week 2

CONLANG February 2014, Week 2

Subject:

Re: "if... then...." Sentences; Dyirbal

From:

Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 11 Feb 2014 10:45:26 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (72 lines)

On 11 February 2014 10:17, Douglas Koller <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> > Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 09:42:19 +0100
> > From: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: "if... then...." Sentences; Dyirbal
> > To: [log in to unmask]
>
> > On 9 February 2014 14:53, Eugene Oh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > > > Don't know if this is what you're looking for, but Japanese has a
> verb
> > > > form(s): stem + -eba => nomeba "if I drink"past form + -ra => nondara
> > > "if I
> > > > drink" (more colloquial) So you get:
>
> > > Actually the two have slightly different nuances—not just a matter of
> > > degree of colloquiality? Colloquity? Colloquialness? (What is the
> noun??)
>
> > As for -ba vs. -ra, it's indeed not just a matter of politeness, but of
> > focus: the conditionals in -ba focus on the condition, while the
> > conditionals in -ra give more importance to the consequence. It's all a
> > matter of what's more important to the speaker: the condition that must
> be
> > fulfilled, or the result if the condition is fulfilled.
>
> By "colloquial", I meant that, in my experience, in terms of hits-per-day
> usage, the -ra forms seemed to get more airplay.


Which is logical, given that these focus on the consequence of the
condition, and that's usually what people like to focus on :P.


> I thought discussions of nuance and focus went beyond the purview of
> Jeffrey's "Is there a language that does this?" question.
>
>
My reply was more directed at explaining what Eugene had left unclear.


> > > > Ame ga fureba/futtara, pikunikku ni ikimasen (desyoo). If it rains,
> we're
> > > > not going on a picnic.
>
> > > > Didn't study formally and don't know how the natives analyze it
> > > > (conditional?). Wouldn't call it a gerund, but is it finite? "Ame ga
> > > > fureba" is not a complete sentence any more than "When in Rome" is.
>
> > > Conditional. Non-finite. There are only two finite forms, the non-past
> (-u,
> > > which in modern Japanese has fused with the "modifier" form) and the
> past
> > > (-ta).
>
> > I have a question about that: given that Japanese verbs don't show any
> type
> > of agreement to their arguments, how does one distinguish between
> > non-finite and finite forms?
>
> Hence my question mark.
>
>
Once again, my question was directed at Eugene. Like you, I'd like to know
when a verb form in Japanese is considered finite or non-finite, and
whether it even makes sense to talk about non-finite verb forms in Japanese.
-- 
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
President of the Language Creation Society (http://conlang.org/)

Personal Website: http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/

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