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CONLANG  March 2014, Week 1

CONLANG March 2014, Week 1

Subject:

Re: What is the word for digit (finger/toe) in your language?

From:

Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 7 Mar 2014 15:27:56 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (91 lines)

On 7 March 2014 12:54, Alex Fink <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I like it; it could make plenty of sense given history.  How old and
> opaque is the _e-_ formation?  If by some point _eçuña_ was felt to be an
> underived word for 'finger' and the connection to _çuña_ overlooked, then
> the extension to cover 'toe' (and perhaps later update of the diminutive)
> seems entirely unremarkable.
>
>
Indeed. Natlangs are littered with such things :).


> We've had in this thread plenty of discussion of the Romance _digitus_
> words vs. the Germanic _finger_ and _toe_ words.  Well, _digitus_ and _toe_
> are cognate; both are from PIE *deyḱ- 'indicate, point out'.  But I don't
> think the Germanics ever had a habit of pointing with their toes; the
> antecedent of Germanic _toe_ must have meant 'digit' before taking its
> current meaning.
> (_Finger_ etymologically is from an adjective formed on _five_; cf. the
> Armenian _hinger-ord_ 'fifth' which is morphologically parallel and shows
> amusingly close sound changes.)
>
> >(Kash don't wear rings, so there's no special name for the 4th finger;
>
> Hardly "so".  There are of course other ways one might name the fourth
> finger, and for that matter cultures other than Earthly European ones might
> put their rings different places on the hand.  The macro-Asian name for the
> fourth finger HERE
>
>
Methinks you pressed "send" too early. Anyway, as far as what I could find
out, Asian names for the ring finger often mean "mystical finger" or
"medical finger". The Indonesian version seems to mean "lovely/sweet
finger", which is just cute :). Then there's the Mandarin name for the ring
finger, which literally means "nameless finger"! (as Roger said, the 4th
finger doesn't have a special name in Mandarin, so it received "nameless"
as its special name ;) )

By the way, the index finger needn't always refer to pointing: in Mandarin
and in Japanese (for at least one of the names for it), the name of the
forefinger is related to eating. In other languages it's related to
licking! :)

ObConlang: I finished defining the names for fingers and toes in Moten. It
took a while, but this thread was great in inspiring me! :)
As I mentioned before, there is the unwieldy _ipe|lastu|l_, which properly
means "indicator". Since all fingers can be referred to by that name (not
only the forefinger), maybe Moten speakers don't point with a single finger
but with the entire hand.
There is, however, a shorter word: _zan_, which properly means "digit,
finger, toe" (while _ipe|lastu|l_ refers to fingers only). It's usually
used to refer to fingers rather than digits in general (like many languages
do), and to refer to "toes" specifically one usually uses the compound
_bnamzan_, literally "foot-digit". The word _zanej_: "finger ring" is
probably also derived from it, although using a suffix that is not
productive anymore (it's the only word I know with such a suffix at the
moment).
Moten, naturally, has names for the various fingers of the hand:
- _za|not_: "thumb". Literally "main/essential finger". Interestingly, it's
nearly homophonous with _|za|not_: "source, origin".
- _gebezan_: "forefinger". Literally "speaking finger". Not sure what this
means. Maybe a culture where people show their forefinger when they wish to
say something...
- _zanfin_: "middle finger". Literally "tall finger".
- _zantel_: "ring finger". Literally "other finger". I guess Moten speakers
had the same problem as Mandarin speakers, with all the fingers named
except for the 4th one, so they just called it the "other one" ;).
- _zanmiko_: "little finger". Literally "far finger" (basically the finger
farthest away from the thumb on one hand).
_Zanmiko_ has a synonym _zansin_ (the diminutive of _zan_). But besides
"little finger", _zansin_ also means "little toe" (the smallest toe of the
foot).
Besides the little toe, the only other toe that has a special name in Moten
is the big toe, which is _ugenon_ (from _uge_: "step, pace". Literally, it
means "artist of the step"). The other toes have no specific name. Notice
that while _ugenon_ means "big toe", it can also be used with big animals,
in which case it means "hoof".

To finish with, I need to add that _zan_ is a counter, i.e. a noun that
combines with the numerals when counted. Like all counters, it can be used
as an optional classifier (a bit like in Japanese or Chinese, but
optionally). While the other Moten counters tend to be rather restricted in
their use as classifiers, this one is somewhat broader in meaning, and can
be used not only to count body extremities, but also things that naturally
come in groups of three or more :).
-- 
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
President of the Language Creation Society (http://conlang.org/)

Personal Website: http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/

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