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CONLANG  March 2014, Week 3

CONLANG March 2014, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Cluster of words to narrow meaning

From:

Leonardo Castro <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 18 Mar 2014 02:06:22 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (120 lines)

2014-03-13 22:42 GMT+01:00 Jim Henry <[log in to unmask]>:
On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 12:24 PM, Leonardo Castro
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> The language I'm working on has the propriety of joining verbs (or nouns)
> together to narrow down its semantic field to the intersection between
them.

gjâ-zym-byn does this sometimes with nouns, not so much with verbs.  E.g.:

kâj-kô                                     store, market
twâ-cu-ĵwa                         bookstore, library
bwĭl-syj-zô                         to lend (to give the use of)
kâj-kô twâ-cu-ĵwa                       bookstore
bwĭl-syj-kô twâ-cu-ĵwa               lending library

gzb sometimes strings two verbs together, but this is maybe more like
an auxiliary verb construction than a serial verb construction (even
though there are no infinitives in the language).  Actually, it
depends on the particular sequence of verbs whether it's more like an
auxiliary verb + main verb sequence or a serial verb where two
features or phases of an event are described by different verbs.

In my language, a verb without a "specifier" may be in any mood, and that's
why "love-date" could mean "to be in love with" even if it's an unrequited
love, because "to date" would be in a desirative (I hope it exists) mood.
But it could also mean "to love to date" because in this case the subject
also loves the object in a way and date it (my language doesn't have
intransitive verbs; a verb without an object must have a desinence that
means that the object is unspecified or nonexistent).


2014-03-15 17:22 GMT+01:00 David McCann <[log in to unmask]>:

> On Sat, 15 Mar 2014 07:47:06 -0700
> Roger Mills <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > As someone else pointed out, joining verbs is probably the  "serial
> > verb".
>
> And, of course, compound verbs. In my auxlang days (said he, blushing)
> I collected examples of compound verbs from Chinese and Japanese,
> since auxlangs like Esperanto lack them as a result of their SAE
> nature. Good examples from my auxlang database (never throw anything
> away) are
> unite-stand : erect
> accumulate-insert : load
> hold-move : carry
> buy-close : corner the market
>

Nice! I think those combinations could work in my language as well. I had
also considered the combination "hold-move", but "hold" and "carry" would
be actually the same verb, with possible specifiers again. A specific
"carry" could be obtained by means of "hold-(trans-(place))".

2014-03-17 13:45 GMT+01:00 Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <[log in to unmask]
>:

> On 13 March 2014 17:24, Leonardo Castro <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > The language I'm working on has the propriety of joining verbs (or nouns)
> > together to narrow down its semantic field to the intersection between
> > them.
> >
> >
> For nouns, my own Moten has the particularity of having something that
> could be called "clarification compounds", i.e. compounds created
> specifically to narrow down the specific shade of meaning one wants to use.
> For instance, look at the noun _|no_: "ice, frost, snow, icy cold, glass
> (material)". A bit broad, what? ;)
>

In my language, I would maybe describe it as "transparent substance".


>
> But when one wants to specifically talk
> about glass, one can use the compound _|nolum_, literally "fake ice". _|No_
> can still be used to mean "glass", but one can disambiguate if necessary by
> using _|nolum_.
> Another example, closer to your idea of joining two nouns to narrow down
> the semantic field to their intersection, is _|za|not_. _|Not_ is another
> one of those broad nouns, and means "source, origin, cornerstone, principal
> part, essential, main, chief, head (of a body)". _|Zaj_ means "start,
> beginning". Combining them forms _|za|not_: "source, origin". Like the
> previous example, it is used to disambiguate, when one wants to focus on
> the "source" meaning of _|not_.
>

Interesting... As I use verbs where English uses prepositions, my verb
serialization could end up creating compounds that would ressemble French
"apporter, emporter, rapporter, amener, emener, ramener...".


>
>
> >
> > Well, I'm looking for ANADEWs or ACADEWs (ALADEWs in general). The most
> > similar thing I can remember is Nicholas Ostler's description of how
> aztecs
> > would repeat the same sentence with near-synonyms for the verbs.
> >
> >
> For an ANADEW, you might want to look at the etymology of many Chinese
> 2-syllable nouns. Often, their meaning looks like the intersection of the
> meanings of the two syllables they are made of (sometimes the two syllables
> seem to be pure synonyms!), and I've heard that many of them may have been
> "clarification compounds", somewhat like the Moten ones, but developed not
> because of nouns with overbroad meanings, but because sound changes were
> creating too many homophones.
>

That's comprehensible... Once I started studying a little Chinese just to
not be a complete ignorant of it, and discovered that it was possible to
search for Chinese words on Wiktionary using pinyin, but frequently I found
a list with dozens of characters, some of them with multiple meanings.
E.g.:

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sh%C4%AB

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