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CONLANG  March 2014, Week 3

CONLANG March 2014, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Forty Rules for Pronouncing Written Angosey

From:

Daniel Bowman <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 19 Mar 2014 12:09:06 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (115 lines)

What is the value of "au"?  I didn't see it in your forty rules, so is it
just [A.V]?

No - that's a mistake, and the consequence of not having one centralized
resource for me to refer to.  This current project will rectify that, at
least.
AU is a letter in its own right, and needs to be included in the forty
rules.

>
>
> Yeah, this seems a stretch to me.  What it seems you would need for this
> to work is not the simple destruction of some written records, but the
> destruction of the entire tradition of writing.  If the aftermath of some
> tumult was merely that the great libraries or archives or whatever had
> burned down, the literate would still go on writing tomorrow as they had
> yesterday.  On the other hand, if things got bad enough that writing simply
> ceased to be practiced, as happened in Mycenaean Greece in the Bronze Age
> collapse ~1200BC, I wouldn't expect the society's lot to turn around
> quickly enough for imperfect memory of the original writers to be relevant,
> but rather that these writers would be long dead.  E.g. in Greece the new
> script after a hiatus of some three centuries was entirely different even
> in principle to the old, the Phoenecian-derived alphabet supplanting the
> old defective-syllabary-with-scattered-logograms Linear B.   (Though to be
> honest I suppose if there wre gaps of your sort in the historic record
> they might be overlookable.)
>
> I expect there are less violent ways to achieve your ends!  Ordinary
> graphic evolution should be up to the job.  I will focus on the medial
> forms, because the initial forms look to be fairly clearly recently arisen
> (maybe from fusion of an old interpunct?).
>

Yes, I think medial precedes initial.  That is consistent with the "true
history" of the language, if I recall correctly I experimented with no
interpuncts at first.  However, particularly since I was not fluent at all,
the writing was hard to decipher.  I was lackadaisically studying Arabic
writing systems at the time, and that's where I got the idea of an initial
form.  I found final forms to be overly burdensome and not really necessary
for readability.


>
> For instance, there are some correspondences (<a, ay, d, h, hh, k, q, n,
> r, s> might be instances) in which the ceremonial has a little (or in <a,
> r, s> not so little) counterclockwise curl at the bottom without a
> counterpart in the runic.  It could be that the historical shapes were more
> like the runic ones, and these curls were added as like a filter in
> ceremonialisation, replacing forms that otherwise woulda just had a
> straight vertical line (or something) there.
>

In "real history" developed ceremonial first, and runic as a simplified
form.  In my conhistory, Angosey was a ritual language first, so I think
the "ceremonial" script should be the first alphabetic system to emerge.
However, it's a bit ornate and difficult to write, so a linearized,
simplified system was developed later.

>
> In the other direction, cases where the runic is simpler than the
> ceremonial could result from case where the historical shapes were more
> like the ceremonial ones but a cursive, heavily reduced variant displaced
> the original in the runic script.  Something like this could be behind <i,
> o, eo, d>, maaaybe <g, m> etc.
>

Yes, I think that is reasonable.


>
> Or, some developments in one script could have been adopted to
> differentiate two letters, which was done differently or not at all in the
> other.  This is e.g. what the identity of <eo, h> in runic but not in
> ceremonial suggests to me.  Maybe in the proto-script <eo, h> were
> identical or fell together, as more or less a simple line, and this is
> preserved in runic.  In early ceremonial, after the curl rule acted, maybe
> they both looked like current ceremonial <h>.  But it was later felt they
> had to be differentiated in ceremonial, and this was done by making the end
> of the bottom curl of <eo> longer, bringing it up again through the stem.
>

Yes, and keep in mind "eo" is a late addition to my phonetic inventory in
"real history" - I added it some 4 years after locking in the basic
phonetics.  So it makes sense that originally there was one symbol in the
proto script.


>
> Proto-<hh> could have been a diacriticked form of <h> (maybe even earlier
> they weren't distinguished in writing?): maybe it was a shorter horizontal
> on top of a longer one.  Then in runic the two strokes got connected up,
> while in ceremonial the diacritic stayed separate, ending up on the left,
> and its presence was enough to prevent the action of the top curling rule.
>  And <k, kh> could have identical in the proto-script, with a more <k>-like
> form, if the differentiation process went differently in the two scripts:
> <kh> was distinguished in runic by adding this curly diacritic on the right
> but in ceremonial by whether the top was curly or straight.  Maybe those
> two ceremonial forms were originally just alloglyphs, like Roman U and V.
>

Proto <<hh>> is indeed a derivation of <h>, and earlier writing will not
show any distinguishing symbol because they were not seen as distinct
phonemes.

>
> And so on.
>

Interesting analysis!  Funny to see all these patterns in this writing
system.

>
> Alex
>

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