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CONLANG  March 2014, Week 4

CONLANG March 2014, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Bretainois, Bretaineis or what?

From:

Jörg Rhiemeier <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 27 Mar 2014 18:12:51 +0100

Content-Type:

Text/Plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

Text/Plain (108 lines)

Hallo conlangers!

On Thursday 27 March 2014 09:25:02 R A Brown wrote:

> On 26/03/2014 17:47, Pete Bleackley wrote:
> > This is a good opportunity to quote my conlanging motto,
> >
> > "Let your language decide."
>
> Which is all very well, no doubt, for an artlang. Maybe at
> some stage Bretainois will have developed enough that I get
> a "feel" for the way it is going; but it is nowhere near
> that stage at the moment.

Sure. It takes a while until one really gets such a feel for
the way a new conlang turns out, and the initial stages of
designing a conlang involve a lot of trying out and rejecting
things that feel "wrong".

> > It's not a matter of whether sound change A or sound
> > change B is more plausible - as far as I can tell, both
> > are equally likely.
>
> The only trouble is that _plausibility_ is an essential part
> of this thought experiment. I had thought one development
> more likely than another - but that was questioned. Indeed,
> rather more than questioned; I was told privately by a
> conlanger whose linguistic savvy I respect that my choice
> was implausible. That is why I brought the problem to the list.

Which is fair and fine - often things become clearer when one
gets comments from other people, even if they don't give clear
advice.
 
> > It's a subjective, artistic decision as to which you
> > feel suits the language better, so it's entirely your
> > call.
>
> Sadly, no.

Do what feels right to you. As we have no way to travel to the
BART and ask locals about their language, we will never know the
"correct" answer ;)

> [...]
> On 26/03/2014 20:09, Jörg Rhiemeier wrote:
> > Hallo conlangers!
> >
> > On Wednesday 26 March 2014 17:57:55 R A Brown wrote:
> >> ... the development of Vulgar Latin /e/ and /o/ (i.e.
> >> Classical Latin /ē/ and /ō/) in open topic syllables.
> >> In many Romance languages they just remained /e/ and
> >> /o/, but in the northern and south-eastern Gaul, in
> >> northern Italy and in western and central Raetia we
> >> find /e/ -> /ei/ and /o/ -> /ou/.
> >
> > Yep. The occurrence of this change in northern Gaul
> > makes it plausible to assume it for British Romance, too.
> > (I *should* have used it in Roman Germanech, too; but I
> > shall resist the temptation to open that can of worms
> > again and rework it.
> >
> :-)

I am right now concentrating on fleshing out Old Albic - finding
more vocabulary and composing more texts in it. Also, I have
promised to the League of Lost Languages that I shall expand the
two protolanguages for the "Second Caucasus Project" (that is a
collaborative project to create two indigenous language families
of the Alps, thus turning the Alps into a "second Caucasus", of
course only linguistically). And as I also have other things to
care of, that means that I currently do not have many resources
to throw into a Romance conlang project ;)
 
> [...]
> > This is a valid reason; the contact between Britain and
> > Gaul certainly would have been strongest where the
> > Channel is narrowest. Maybe the southeastern dialects of
> > Bretainois, including the prestigious dialect of
> > Londinium on which the written standard would probably be
> > based, would have /oi/, but the more rustic western and
> > northern dialects preserve the more archaic /ei/. One can
> > see a shibboleth arise here!
>
> Yes, a nice idea. There would inevitably have been dialect
> difference within a British Romance. It would be very
> interesting to delve deeper into that. But to do that
> properly, in my opinion, will take many years of work
> analogous to Tolkien's life-time work on Elven dialects and
> language. I do not now have a life-time in which to do
> that. But your suggestion is certainly not unlikely. Sound
> changes do not happen everywhere at once.

Sure! Concentrate on the standard variety, which would likely
be based on southeastern dialects. You or others can always
add dialects later. It would be a pity if you died leaving an
unfinished torso of Bretainois. (Of course, a conlang is never
really finished. What I mean with "finished" here is something
which has a fairly complete basic reference grammar, a well-
rounded vocabulary of a few thousand words, and a fairly
substantial text corpus. But it depends on the nature of the
project how much there must be about to call it "finished".)
 
--
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
"Bêsel asa Éam, a Éam atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Éamal." - SiM 1:1

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