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CONLANG Home

CONLANG  April 2014, Week 4

CONLANG April 2014, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Conlang copyright

From:

Galen Buttitta <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 27 Apr 2014 10:06:39 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (169 lines)

Scripts per se can't be copyrighted. The guy who wrote "Myst" tried to copyright the D'Ni script, but the Copyright Office rejected his application; as I recall it was because of the fact that it was a writing system.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 12, 2014, at 13:15, Sai <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Jeffrey Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> As a specific example, literary characters are covered under copyright
> 
> No, they are definitely *not* covered under copyright.
> 
> "Harry Potter" is a trademark (word mark to be precise); the logo is a
> trademark; and the character (in terms of visual identity and so
> forth) is part of the overall trade dress of the book & film series.
> 
> There's a very big legal difference between copyright and trade-foo.
> Trademark rights let you prevent others from:
> a) using in commerce
> c) something that is reasonably confusable with your
> b) distinctive and creative design, name, logo, or general look & feel
> d) that you are continuously using in commerce and
> e) telling others not to use as such.
> 
> The crucial factor to prove in trademark is that the person you want
> to stop is taking commercial advantage of or harming the goodwill
> you've accrued to your business or product.
> 
> Note that fanfic is not used in commerce, so under US law, there's no
> violation unless it somehow harms the commercial value of the
> original, which would be hard to prove.
> 
> Also, at least in theory, trademark rights are limited to a field.
> There's a restaruant in Berkeley called Long Life Vegi House; that's a
> trademark, as is the way they print their name on their sign (that's a
> visual symbol). However, if I happen to start selling, say, a line of
> perfumes under the name "Long Life Vegi House", with a different logo
> and no affiliation whatsoever with the restaurant, then I'm fine.
> 
> Of course for mega-brands this doesn't really work, since (a) it's
> entirely possible that Apple (computer) might start selling perfumes
> and (b) they have so big a brand that even if implausible for Apple to
> actually do a consumer might reasonably think that my perfume line is
> somehow affiliated with Apple the computer / software / etc seller,
> which is the crux point above.
> 
> 
> (Side note: http://hpmor.com is excellent. Regardless of how you feel
> about the original, go read the first three chapters of HPMoR. I'm
> pretty sure 99% of people on the list would like it.)
> 
>> Let's say I want to create a
>> language like Parselmouth (the language of snakes). So, I want to create a
>> language with lots of sibilants and other fricatives, and with a
>> "serpentine grammar." That is the idea. But is the specific morphology or
>> lexicon an expression of that idea, and therefore covered by copyright law
>> just like a literary character?
> 
> No, it is definitely not.
> 
> Making a snake language per se is 100% legal. There is nothing
> copyrighted about it, nor trademarked either.
> 
> *Calling* it Parselmouth, or making it tied to the whole HP mythos
> about what it means to be a Parselmouth, would *potentially* violate
> trademark rights, if the above factors are met. (E.g. a reasonable
> consumer would have to think it's official, or it'd have to harm
> Rowling's ability to sell her products.)
> 
> As far as I know JKR has zero actual Parselmouth grammar in it (just
> overused _s_ in its English rendering [which as a side note makes me
> wonder whether that's the onomatopaeia associated with snakes in all
> other languages, and if not, how translators in those languages
> handled it]).
> 
> Your grammar sketch of such a language would almost certainly be 100%
> your copyright, non-derivative, since your manner of describing your
> language is an original, fixed, creative work.
> 
>> On a practical note, anything one writes, such as the description of the
>> grammar or the conworld, the dictionary (because the association of the
>> English definitions with the conlang words is creative expression), any
>> texts or audio recordings in the conlang - all of those are covered by
>> copyright.
> 
> That part is mostly true, to the extent that it is creative and not
> mere listing of facts about the world and not trivial.
> 
> E.g. I cannot copyright the way I pronounce "confabulate" because it's
> a fact about the world; I can't copyright the word "narn", which I
> invented (it's like "foo" (n) or "frob" (v), but for any constituent
> or phrase) because it's trivial; I can't copyright a rhyming
> dictionary (even if it's difficult work to compile, the fact that
> words rhyme is not a creative work of mine); and I can't copyright a
> mere-gloss type dictionary.
> 
> Dictionary entries like the OED's are copyrighted because they are
> non-trivial creative expressions that can be expressed in a different
> way. If there's only one way to express something, you can't copyright
> that expression.
> 
> Note that a pronunciation *can* sometimes be trademarked if it's used
> commercially as part of a brand — e.g. /tar\Zej/ is used by the store
> Target as part of an ad campaign (or was some years ago, dunno if it's
> in continuous use now).
> 
> 
> A text or audio recording in the conlang is copyrighted, but not
> because of anything to do with the conlang at all. Rather, it's an
> original creative expression, just like this email; it's irrelevant
> what language it happens to be in.
> 
> Suppose I write a poem in your conlang.
> 
> Assuming that I don't use any part of your conworld (which'd be
> covered by trade dress, if you or I use it commercially, which is
> almost certainly false), don't use any of your conscripts (the glyphs
> are copyrighted, like small pieces of art*), etc., then I am legally
> 100% in the clear** and I own exclusive copyright to my poem.
> 
> * Whether I could legally make a variant of your script, like anyone
> can make a font variant for e.g. the Roman, Cyrillic, or Japanese
> scripts, is potentially questionable; it might be impossible to do
> without being a derivative work, even if my script and yours are as
> different as, say, Times New Roman and Zapfino
> 
> ** Except for the one thing I mentioned before: namely, I don't know
> of any legal precedent about whether a lexicon can be copyrighted — a
> single word is too trivial but a whole bunch of single words might not
> be, and it's not clear whether your lexicon (by its very existence)
> describes an externally true fact about the world or not.
> 
> Personally my bet is on "no", because of the second factor. Vocabulary
> of a language is a fact about the world; even if you created that
> language, the language is free of you from the moment of conception.
> 
>> So the only issue is whether or not some other person might use
>> the conlang to write or record something or to create a derivative work.
> 
> It's only a derivative work if I am making a modification of some
> fixed, significant, creative expression of yours.
> 
> So e.g. if I altered a poem of *yours*, that's a derivative work (e.g.
> cover songs are derivative works). And see above re scripts.
> 
>> But who doesn't want other people to appreciate and to use his conlang? Or
>> is this really a concern about not being recognized through proper
>> attribution?
> 
> Legally: authorship / moral rights, which incidentally are not a thing
> in the US but *are* elsewhere (go figure), would cover the right to be
> known as the author of your work. So if I actually do use something
> that's legally yours, I can't claim credit of it as if it were mine.
> (Cf. Serali as someone who repeatedly violated this.)
> 
> Note that this can actually be detrimental. A major reason why the
> John Cage vs Mike Batt lawsuit was won by Cage was that Batt
> co-credited Cage on the track, thus signalling that it *was* intended
> as a derivative work. Had Batt not done so, it would've been harder to
> prove.
> 
> 
> Not-being-a-dick-ly: that rather depends on the conlanger's preferences.
> 
> Some would love for others to use their language. Others would not.
> Regardless of the legalities, I think it's common courtesy to ask
> first.
> 
> - Sai

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January 2007, Week 2
January 2007, Week 1
December 2006, Week 5
December 2006, Week 4
December 2006, Week 3
December 2006, Week 2
December 2006, Week 1
November 2006, Week 5
November 2006, Week 4
November 2006, Week 3
November 2006, Week 2
November 2006, Week 1
October 2006, Week 5
October 2006, Week 4
October 2006, Week 3
October 2006, Week 2
October 2006, Week 1
September 2006, Week 5
September 2006, Week 4
September 2006, Week 3
September 2006, Week 2
September 2006, Week 1
August 2006, Week 5
August 2006, Week 4
August 2006, Week 3
August 2006, Week 2
August 2006, Week 1
July 2006, Week 5
July 2006, Week 4
July 2006, Week 3
July 2006, Week 2
July 2006, Week 1
June 2006, Week 5
June 2006, Week 4
June 2006, Week 3
June 2006, Week 2
June 2006, Week 1
May 2006, Week 5
May 2006, Week 4
May 2006, Week 3
May 2006, Week 2
May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 5
April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
February 2006, Week 3
February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
January 2006, Week 5
January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
January 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
November 2005, Week 3
November 2005, Week 2
November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
October 2005, Week 4
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 5
September 2005, Week 4
September 2005, Week 3
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
August 2005, Week 4
August 2005, Week 3
August 2005, Week 2
August 2005, Week 1
July 2005, Week 5
July 2005, Week 4
July 2005, Week 3
July 2005, Week 2
July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
June 2005, Week 4
June 2005, Week 3
June 2005, Week 2
June 2005, Week 1
May 2005, Week 5
May 2005, Week 4
May 2005, Week 3
May 2005, Week 2
May 2005, Week 1
April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
February 2005, Week 4
February 2005, Week 3
February 2005, Week 2
February 2005, Week 1
January 2005, Week 5
January 2005, Week 4
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
October 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
October 2004, Week 2
October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
September 2004, Week 4
September 2004, Week 3
September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
August 2004, Week 4
August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 5
July 2004, Week 4
July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 5
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 5
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
May 2004, Week 2
May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
April 2004, Week 4
April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 5
March 2004, Week 4
March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 2
March 2004, Week 1
February 2004, Week 5
February 2004, Week 4
February 2004, Week 3
February 2004, Week 2
February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
December 2003, Week 4
December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
July 2003, Week 4
July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
May 2003, Week 2
May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
September 2000, Week 3
September 2000, Week 2
September 2000, Week 1
August 2000, Week 5
August 2000, Week 4
August 2000, Week 3
August 2000, Week 2
August 2000, Week 1
July 2000, Week 5
July 2000, Week 4
July 2000, Week 3
July 2000, Week 2
July 2000, Week 1
June 2000, Week 5
June 2000, Week 4
June 2000, Week 3
June 2000, Week 2
June 2000, Week 1
May 2000, Week 5
May 2000, Week 4
May 2000, Week 3
May 2000, Week 2
May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
April 2000, Week 4
April 2000, Week 3
April 2000, Week 2
April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
October 1999, Week 2
October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
September 1999, Week 4
September 1999, Week 3
September 1999, Week 2
September 1999, Week 1
August 1999, Week 5
August 1999, Week 4
August 1999, Week 3
August 1999, Week 2
August 1999, Week 1
July 1999, Week 5
July 1999, Week 4
July 1999, Week 3
July 1999, Week 2
July 1999, Week 1
June 1999, Week 5
June 1999, Week 4
June 1999, Week 3
June 1999, Week 2
June 1999, Week 1
May 1999, Week 5
May 1999, Week 4
May 1999, Week 3
May 1999, Week 2
May 1999, Week 1
April 1999, Week 5
April 1999, Week 4
April 1999, Week 3
April 1999, Week 2
April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
March 1999, Week 4
March 1999, Week 3
March 1999, Week 2
March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 5
February 1999, Week 4
February 1999, Week 3
February 1999, Week 2
February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
January 1999, Week 2
January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
December 1998, Week 3
December 1998, Week 2
December 1998, Week 1
November 1998, Week 5
November 1998, Week 4
November 1998, Week 3
November 1998, Week 2
November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
October 1998, Week 4
October 1998, Week 3
October 1998, Week 2
October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
September 1998, Week 4
September 1998, Week 3

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