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CONLANG  May 2014, Week 3

CONLANG May 2014, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Articles (again)

From:

Jeff Daniel Rollin-Jones <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 21 May 2014 17:27:50 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (91 lines)

That is very sad. As a fellow Brit, if there's anything you think I can do, you are welcome to contact me in private. In any case, I wish you luck.

Jeff

Sent from my iPhone

> On 21 May 2014, at 11:07, R A Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
>> On 21/05/2014 08:03, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets wrote:
>> On 15 May 2014 19:44, Jeff Daniel Rollin-Jones
>>> 
>>> Still doesn't help with deciding the form of the
>>> article, though. Very fond of Hungarian's "a" and "az"
>>> (which, although the first one looks like the English
>>> word, are both definite articles, the one used before
>>> words beginning with a consonant, and the other used
>>> before those beginning with a vowel), but not so crazy
>>> about also having "z" in other places. Maybe the
>>> article was borrowed ...
> [snipped]
> 
>> Try and decide where that article comes from. It needn't
>> have been borrowed from another language's article:
> 
> Yes, indeed. IMO it is unlikely that an article - definite,
> indefinite, or whatever) - would be likely to be a
> borrowing.  Of hand, I can't think of any such examples.
> 
>> it could come from a demonstrative, as articles often
>> do.
> 
> Yep - IME definite articles are derived from earlier
> demonstratives in some way or other.
> 
>> In my Romance conlang Reman for instance, I didn't want
>> the article to be the usual ille-based thing,
> 
> Some, that didn't make it as national languages have
> definite articles derived from _ipse_, e.g. Sardinian and
> some Catalan dialects.
> 
>> so I went with iste instead,
> 
> But that AFAIK is novel   :)
> 
>> and the article ended up becoming _ì_ in front of
>> consonants and _t'_ in front of vowels (the article is
>> otherwise invariable). Reman is a bit of an odd one out
>> as a Romance language (it lost gender distinctions
> 
> Interesting - I had come up with a fairly plausible scenario
> in which Britainese would lose gender distinction.  But, in
> fact, no Romance language has and if 'discovered' that
> Britainese did so, it would look too much like Anglocentric
> bogoism.  Britainese will keep the masculine ~ feminine
> distinction.
> 
>> except in pronouns and developed nominal sentences, for
>> instance. On the other hand, it kept some archaic
>> features like a genitive case and a synthetic passive
>> conjugation), so it works well for it :).
> 
> Wow! A synthetic passive conjugation - it is, as you say, a
> bit of an odd one out!
> 
> I'm afraid work on Britainese is on hold at the moment.  We
> had a great time in Turkey and got back a week ago.  But in
> the days following I received two intimidating letters from
> a land developer.
> 
> Over the past two years I have been involved with a group
> trying to prevent what we see as in appropriate development
> of part of the North Downs in Surrey.  It has involved
> recourse to law courts and now got rather nasty with a
> deliberate campaign of smear and intimidation being directed
> towards us.  If you've got big money you can go a long way
> towards silencing opposition - forget free speech.
> 
> Anyway this unpleasant piece of so-called "real life" is
> dominating things at present so, as I say, work on
> Britainese has come to a temporary (I hope) halt.
> 
> -- 
> Ray
> ==================================
> http://www.carolandray.plus.com
> ==================================
> Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
> There's none too old to learn.
> [WELSH PROVERB]

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