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CONLANG  June 2014, Week 1

CONLANG June 2014, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Bretainois, Bretaineis or what?

From:

Jeff Daniel Rollin-Jones <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 7 Jun 2014 16:09:04 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (94 lines)

Except that because it's a conlang, it gives one licence to go wild; suppose the Great Vowel Shift and lots of other phonological changes in English never happened; would a conlanger, sat by his computer and trying to imagine an English of the future, ever have imagined that /kni:xt/ would turn into /nait/?!

Sent from my iPhone

> On 26 Mar 2014, at 18:37, And Rosta <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> Except that the fascinating thing about Ray's project is that it isn't
> artistic and subjective but rather is a scrupulously scholarly best
> estimate of what a British Romance language would have been like (given
> certain minimal foundational uchronian assumptions). Really it's an
> engelang and a work of creative scholarship. And it's a deep pleasure to
> see it unfold and read Ray's justifications for each detail.
> 
> And
> On 26 Mar 2014 17:46, "Pete Bleackley" <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> 
>> This is a good opportunity to quote my conlanging motto, "Let your
>> language decide." It's not a matter of whether sound change A or sound
>> change B is more plausible - as far as I can tell, both are equally likely.
>> It's a subjective, artistic decision as to which you feel suits the
>> language better, so it's entirely your call.
>> 
>> --
>> Pete
>> The Fantastical Devices of Pete The Mad Scientist -
>> http://fantasticaldevices.blogspot.com
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Sent: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 16:58
>> Subject: Bretainois, Bretaineis or what?
>> 
>> I'd like to canvass views, if any, on another point that has
>> been queried in a private email.  That is the development of
>> Vulgar Latin /e/ and /o/ (i.e. Classical Latin /ē/ and /ō/)
>> in open topic syllables.  In many Romance languages they
>> just remained /e/ and /o/, but in the northern and
>> south-eastern Gaul, in northern Italy and in western and
>> central Raetia we find /e/ -> /ei/ and /o/ -> /ou/.
>> 
>> That is how we find them in Norman French, hence all the
>> Latin words ending -ōre(m) come to us with the Norman
>> spelling which, for the most part, is still retained by
>> Brits, i.e. hour, colour, honour, splendour, etc. (Our
>> American cousins have reverted to a Latinate spelling,
>> except for _hour_).  Also we have _ei_ in words like
>> _conceive, conceit, receive, recei(p)t- etc.
>> 
>> In other areas /ei/ changed to /ai/  or /oi/ (the latter
>> also underwent further change in some places, e.g. France;
>> but I'm leaving that for the moment).  AFAIK /ai/ in some
>> Romansh dialects but not in those that are in contact with
>> Britain.  However we do find /ei/ => /oi/ in some early
>> French dialects.  AIUI /ei/ persisted in north west and
>> south east France.  It changed to /ai/ in some Gallo-Italian
>> dialects.  It changed to /oi/ in north east and central
>> France (still preserved so in modern French spelling!).
>> 
>> I have no doubt that Bretainois would have shared in the
>> initial development of free tonic /e/ -> /ei/.  The question
>> is whether it would have remained at this stage, as Norman
>> French did, or whether it would have shared in the further
>> change /ei/ -> /oi/ of the dialects of central and north
>> eastern France (including Picardy).  I have assumed the
>> latter, because:
>> - the proximity of south east Britain to north east France;
>> - we find a similar development in Welsh of /eː/ -> /uɨ/ (a
>> _falling_ diphthong, written _wy_).
>> 
>> Similarly I have assume the change /o/ -> /ou/ -> /eu/ (Old
>> French /øu/).
>> 
>> So is it Bretainois or Bretaineis? - (assuming Latin
>> _Brittania_ -> Bretain)     :)
>> 
>> Those who object that the Latin should be _Britannia_,
>> please read:
>> 
>> http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Britannic/preliminary.html#named_after_country
>> 
>> --
>> Ray
>> ==================================
>> http://www.carolandray.plus.com
>> ==================================
>> "Ein Kopf, der auf seine eigene Kosten denkt,
>> wird immer Eingriffe in die Sprache thun."
>> [J.G. Hamann, 1760]
>> "A mind that thinks at its own expense
>> will always interfere with language".
>> 

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