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CONLANG  June 2014, Week 1

CONLANG June 2014, Week 1

Subject:

Re: A priori and a posteriori (was: Bālaybalan)

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 5 Jun 2014 20:50:20 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (68 lines)

On 05/06/2014 16:48, Chuck Haberl wrote:
> I can't agree that Bālaybalan is a posteriori by virtue
> of the fact that it is "strongly influenced by a limited
> set of natlangs." The putative "source" languages
> represent three different phyla (Afroasiatic,
> Indo-European, and Turkic)

That the three 'source" languages are from three different
phyla would not, of itself, mean the language could not be
a_posteriori. We have seen over the years examples of
conlangs borrowing from the most unlikely sets of natlangs   :)

But I agree that strongly influenced by a set of natlangs
does not make the language a_posteriori per_se.  After all,
Tolkien's Sindarin is clearly strongly influenced by Old
English and Welsh. But, as I have argued earlier today, in
my opinion, arguing that Sindarin is a_posteriori or 
a_priori is largely meaningless.

[snip]
>
> The vocabulary is an entirely different matter. As I
> mentioned in the other thread, here's another entry from
> the dictionary:
>
> "gabam 'to deliberate,' [Persian] kenkāj kardan,
> [Arabic] moshāwara. In the word gabam, the -b- indicates
> shared action between multiple people, and g- means
> "publicizing," indeed deliberation leads to revelation
> in accordance with the saying, 'Every secret that is
> known to more than two people has been revealed.' Gafam
> is used in the same sense, but in the latter word, the
> -f- indicates the idea of ​​asking. Additionally, it
> means 'to be pregnant,' [Persian] ābestan shodan; one
> says, in much the same sense, gam, as explained in [the
> entry for the word] rajam."

Interesting.

> Absolutely no natural language functions this way, as
> far as I'm aware. The word "gabam," much like the bulk of
> the entries in the dictionary, does not exist in Arabic,
> Persian, or Turkish, and the process by which it was
> generated is completely alien to all three. Bālaybalan
> strikes me as being much more like the "philosophical
> languages" of the 17th century

Not sure I would agree with you there - at least not judging
by that single example.  I get more the feel of Kaballah;
that would be more in keeping with a language developed by
mystics, as Bālaybalan seems to have been.  It is not
improbable that some kaballistic ideas had penetrated the
Sufic orders in which Bālaybalan developed.

I have rewritten the bit about Bālaybalan for my web page,
but I have not yet uploaded it.  After reading Chuck's
email, I may make one or two further amendments before
uploading the changed version.

-- 
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]

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