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CONLANG  June 2014, Week 2

CONLANG June 2014, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Definition of a-priori/a-posteriori

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Sun, 8 Jun 2014 15:39:43 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (310 lines)

On 07/06/2014 23:53, Herman Miller wrote:
> On 6/7/2014 3:10 PM, R A Brown wrote:
>
>> The confusion arises IMO in that we are taking
>> categories that were designed and have been used for
>> more than a century for categorizing auxlangs and
>> trying to apply them to a very different sort of
>> conlang. Does any artlanger actually fashion her/his
>> artlang without taking natural languages into account?
>
> Jaghri might be an example,

http://archives.conlang.info/fu/zhuansaen/khianjhaultuen.html

Tho i notice you did write "but Jaghri pretty much has
traditional grammatical categories, cases of nouns, aspects
of verbs", so those features at least do take natlangs into
account    :)

[snip]

> Tilya is probably the best example from my languages.
> It's probably significant that I haven't written much
> about either Jaghri or Tilya. Those aren't the kind of
> languages that I think about much, but they do exist.

I couldn't find anything significant about Tilya   ;)

[snip[]
>>
>> What about Arika Okrent's four-fold division?
>> http://inthelandofinventedlanguages.com/index.php?page=languages&subpage=samples
>>
>>
>>
>
> I'm not sure why languages like Britheneg and Þrjótrunn
> aren't in the a posteriori list, but otherwise it makes
> sense.

No, that is a bot odd.  Looking at the full definition she
give _a posteriori_ I see she says "They generally simplify
and regularize the grammar of their source languages and mix
roots from different languages together."  Brithenig &
Þrjótrunn would not qualify there.  But she does say
"generally", so it is a bit odd.

[snip]
>>
>> But I shall stick with the Gnoli triangle, unless I can
>> be convincingly persuaded otherwise.
>
> Yeah, that works.

Yep - I think so.  I've not found anything better.
============================================================

On 08/06/2014 09:13, Douglas Koller wrote:
>> Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 12:59:38 -0700 From:
>> [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Definition of
>> a-priori/a-posteriori To: [log in to unmask]
>
>> On Jun 7, 2014, at 12:10 PM, R A Brown  wrote:
>
>>> Yes, indeed. But that doesn't conform to an important
>>> part of Couturat and Leau's definition of _a priori_,
>>> i.e. that the authors takes *no account* of natural
>>> languages.
>
>> Most of the modern conlanging crew, I’d say, makes
>> absolutely no reference to these original definitions.
>
> Indeed. Prior to this discussion, I was not aware of
> these original definitions. If that makes me a hapless
> rube who doesn't know my conlanging history, so be it.

I guess I'd better apologize for being so ancient and having
begun conlanging way before this list had even been thought of.

> However, I've been on this list for *quite* a while now,
>  and my understanding of the terms "a priori" and "a
> posteriori" as they apply to conlanging (and my
> understanding is the more modern interpretation) came
> from *this list*

I guess I must also apologize for joining the list early on.
When I joined, it was very shortly after the Great
Sundering; and I joined both Conlang and Auxlang at the same
time.  Clearly on Auxlang the older meanings still
prevailed, so that reinforced my ancient use of the terms.
Also, in the early day, it was engelangs that tended to
dominate discussion on the list. They've continued to
interest me.

I'm sorry I didn't wake up to the change usage among artlangers.

> If the narrower historical usages have been around for
> more than a century,

That depends what you mean by narrow, i guess.

Old usage:
A PRIORI - taking no account of any natlang, creating the
_whole language_ ("de toutes pièces") 'from scratch.'

A POSTERIORI - taking natlangs as their model, try to
imitate them and borrow almost _all_ their elements
("presque tous leurs éléments") from them.

Now AIUI the artlang usage is:
A PRIORI - creating original vocabulary.
A POSTERIORI - deriving vocabulary from natlangs.

Unless I've gone completely senile and misunderstood, it
seems the "modern" meaning applies only to vocabulary; that
IMHO makes the definitions narrower.

But, I suppose, you mean the older definitions are narrower
because they refer to all aspects of a language and,
therefor, a smaller number will actually qualify for _a
priori_.

Of course, as Chuck has reminded us, these terms are taken
from epistemology and, in the strict sense of _a priori_ no
conlang qualifies.  But it seems to me that the weak meaning
now given by many to _a priori_ is even further removed from
its original meaning.

[snip]
>
>> The modern de facto definitions—that a priori and a
>> posteriori deal with vocabulary sources,

Which is what I said above, and have said in other emails.

>> and, to an admittedly vague extant, >grammatical
>> patterns—are much more useful, and apply to all conlang
>> types.

I don't understand this.

[snip]

>> Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 20:10:30 +0100 From: ray@
>
>> Yes - I have written before that lumping Quenya and
>> Esperanto together as _a posteriori_ is IMO just as
>> misguided as lumping Quenya and Babm together as _a
>> priori_. Indeed, it is my contention that while the _a
>>  priori_ ~ _a posteriori_ distinction is useful one for
>>  auxlangs, it doesn't make sense for artlangs which are
>>  artistic creations.
>
> Well, "lumping" lends an air of supposed indiscriminate
> ridiculousness to it all.

That is _exactly_ the point I have been trying to make.

[snip]

> Wenedyk is an a posteriori artlang Esperanto is an a
> posteriori auxlang Quenya is an a priori artlang Babm is
>  an a priori auxlang

Arguably, _a posteriori_ could mean the same when applied to
Wenedyk and Esperanto in that it is not only the vocabulary
but also the grammar which is largely borrowed from natlangs.

But, with respect, if you mean by saying that Babm is an
auxlang with an original vocabulary, you are _restricting_
its use and the meaning that an auxlanger would understand.
  The point is Babm is that it is _a priori_ in *every* respect.

Another import point is that the two categories are
meaningful when applied to auxlangs.  they not only indicate
the nature of the language in its entirety, but also the
attitude of the author towards auxlangs.  From as far back
as the 17th century we find the auxlang word divided into
two camps:

1. Those who, like Dalgarno and Wilkins, considered all
natlangs to be defective and flawed, and that the only truly
neutral language suitable as an auxlang would be a perfect
language created from first principles.  Now, this is
probably an impossibility; but the point is that this is
what the authors of those languages were attempting to do
and, indeed, thought they were doing.

2. There were others, like Philippe Labbé, who considered
the best approach would be a language based on the widely
used natlang(s), freed of all irregularities.

The first group were dubbed by Couturat & Leau as _a priori_
and the second as _a posteriori_.  They were perhaps not the
best terms, but they have been around now for more than
century - even longer than me!

But what do those terms tell us about  Wenedyk and Quenya as
the regards the whole language and the attitude of their
authors towards artlangs?

When it is explained to us that Wenedyk is a fictional
Romance language, showing what Vulgar Latin subject to
Slavonic influence might be like, is it transparently obvious
that the vocabulary is going to be derived from Vulgar
Latin?  What choice did the author have?

When we are told that Quenya is a language of the Elves in
the mythic past, millennia ago, when the shape of the
continents were different from those we now know, isn't it
fairly obvious the vocabulary won't bear any resemblance to
any known language of these latter days (unless Tolkien was
a bloody useless linguist, which he wasn't)?

> Jameld is a posteriori; Teonaht is a priori. Useful,
> understandable, easy (no lumping :) ).

Certainly not understandable to those of us who have grown
up in a different tradition.  There simply is no way that
Teonaht take no account of natlangs or that it doesn't try
to look like a natural language.

Sorry, to label Teonaht as _a priori_ without qualification
is to lump it with Babm, which is _a priori_ in a much more
meaningful way.

[snip]
>
>> The confusion arises IMO in that we are taking
>> categories that were designed and have been used for
>> more than a century for categorizing auxlangs and
>> trying to apply them to a very different sort of
>> conlang.
>
> What trying? They *are* being applied usefully,
> understandably, and successfully to artlang and auxlang
> alike.  The most cursory websearch illustrates this.

No doubt they are being applied.  But I would have thought
that this thread makes it fairly clear they are not being
applied understandably.  I question very much the useful of
categorizing artlangs just by the way the vocabulary is
derived - especially as often the author doesn't actually
have any choice in the matter because of the sort of artlang
s/he is constructing.

> To my mind, if, in writing for a contemporary conlanging
>  audience, one employs "a priori" in its Couturat/Leau
> sense without any kind of qualification, explanation, or
>  nod to Couturat/Leau, *that* is where the confusion will
>  arise.

That's a wee bit artlang-centric, methinks.

> Indeed, is that not where communication broke down in the
> Bālaybalan thread in the first place?

Vaguely - there were other aspects of the terms.  But this
has been argued about on this thread before.  It is not new;
tho i think (but may be wrong) that the artlang case had not
been so strongly made.  But it was because of such a debate
that I included on my Glossopoeia page:
"NOTE: while the terms a priori and a posteriori are useful
when talking about auxlangs, they are not useful and,
indeed, somewhat meaningless when applied to artlangs &
engelangs."

[snip]
>
>> Or whether the line is applicable or meaningful for
>> artlangs.
>
> By Couturat and Leau's definition, probably not. But is
> that really a line anyway? More of a light switch, I
> think. On/Off. A language is either a priori or it isn't.
> Full stop.

Good grief! The whole artlang world is sharply divided into
those with a_priori vocabulary and those with _a posteriori_
vocabulary, and there can't be anything in between!  Then
we're certainly not talking about *art*.  A true artist
takes her/his material and fashions something creative and
new; s/he's not going to be fettered by so-called _a priori_
or _a posteriori_ vocabs.

Tolkien took ingredients from English, ancient Greek,
classical and ecclesiastical Latin, Finnish and probably
other languages and fashioned something _new_, that was none
of them.  In Quenya he fashioned IMO opinion a *great work
of art.*

To label that work of art _a priori_ is, from my point of
view, not only potentially confusing, not only ultimately
meaningless, but belittles as a work of art.  Quenya is a
darn sight more than an exercise in vocabulary building.

I think I'd better stop before I get too carried away.

I'm afraid nothing that has been said so far has convinced
me that what I have written on my Glossopoeia page is incorrect.

-- 
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]

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November 2008, Week 5
November 2008, Week 4
November 2008, Week 3
November 2008, Week 2
November 2008, Week 1
October 2008, Week 5
October 2008, Week 4
October 2008, Week 3
October 2008, Week 2
October 2008, Week 1
September 2008, Week 5
September 2008, Week 4
September 2008, Week 3
September 2008, Week 2
September 2008, Week 1
August 2008, Week 5
August 2008, Week 4
August 2008, Week 3
August 2008, Week 2
August 2008, Week 1
July 2008, Week 5
July 2008, Week 4
July 2008, Week 3
July 2008, Week 2
July 2008, Week 1
June 2008, Week 5
June 2008, Week 4
June 2008, Week 3
June 2008, Week 2
June 2008, Week 1
May 2008, Week 5
May 2008, Week 4
May 2008, Week 3
May 2008, Week 2
May 2008, Week 1
April 2008, Week 5
April 2008, Week 4
April 2008, Week 3
April 2008, Week 2
April 2008, Week 1
March 2008, Week 5
March 2008, Week 4
March 2008, Week 3
March 2008, Week 2
March 2008, Week 1
February 2008, Week 5
February 2008, Week 4
February 2008, Week 3
February 2008, Week 2
February 2008, Week 1
January 2008, Week 5
January 2008, Week 4
January 2008, Week 3
January 2008, Week 2
January 2008, Week 1
December 2007, Week 5
December 2007, Week 4
December 2007, Week 3
December 2007, Week 2
December 2007, Week 1
November 2007, Week 5
November 2007, Week 4
November 2007, Week 3
November 2007, Week 2
November 2007, Week 1
October 2007, Week 5
October 2007, Week 4
October 2007, Week 3
October 2007, Week 2
October 2007, Week 1
September 2007, Week 5
September 2007, Week 4
September 2007, Week 3
September 2007, Week 2
September 2007, Week 1
August 2007, Week 5
August 2007, Week 4
August 2007, Week 3
August 2007, Week 2
August 2007, Week 1
July 2007, Week 5
July 2007, Week 4
July 2007, Week 3
July 2007, Week 2
July 2007, Week 1
June 2007, Week 5
June 2007, Week 4
June 2007, Week 3
June 2007, Week 2
June 2007, Week 1
May 2007, Week 5
May 2007, Week 4
May 2007, Week 3
May 2007, Week 2
May 2007, Week 1
April 2007, Week 5
April 2007, Week 4
April 2007, Week 3
April 2007, Week 2
April 2007, Week 1
March 2007, Week 5
March 2007, Week 4
March 2007, Week 3
March 2007, Week 2
March 2007, Week 1
February 2007, Week 4
February 2007, Week 3
February 2007, Week 2
February 2007, Week 1
January 2007, Week 5
January 2007, Week 4
January 2007, Week 3
January 2007, Week 2
January 2007, Week 1
December 2006, Week 5
December 2006, Week 4
December 2006, Week 3
December 2006, Week 2
December 2006, Week 1
November 2006, Week 5
November 2006, Week 4
November 2006, Week 3
November 2006, Week 2
November 2006, Week 1
October 2006, Week 5
October 2006, Week 4
October 2006, Week 3
October 2006, Week 2
October 2006, Week 1
September 2006, Week 5
September 2006, Week 4
September 2006, Week 3
September 2006, Week 2
September 2006, Week 1
August 2006, Week 5
August 2006, Week 4
August 2006, Week 3
August 2006, Week 2
August 2006, Week 1
July 2006, Week 5
July 2006, Week 4
July 2006, Week 3
July 2006, Week 2
July 2006, Week 1
June 2006, Week 5
June 2006, Week 4
June 2006, Week 3
June 2006, Week 2
June 2006, Week 1
May 2006, Week 5
May 2006, Week 4
May 2006, Week 3
May 2006, Week 2
May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 5
April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
February 2006, Week 3
February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
January 2006, Week 5
January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
January 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
November 2005, Week 3
November 2005, Week 2
November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
October 2005, Week 4
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 5
September 2005, Week 4
September 2005, Week 3
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
August 2005, Week 4
August 2005, Week 3
August 2005, Week 2
August 2005, Week 1
July 2005, Week 5
July 2005, Week 4
July 2005, Week 3
July 2005, Week 2
July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
June 2005, Week 4
June 2005, Week 3
June 2005, Week 2
June 2005, Week 1
May 2005, Week 5
May 2005, Week 4
May 2005, Week 3
May 2005, Week 2
May 2005, Week 1
April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
February 2005, Week 4
February 2005, Week 3
February 2005, Week 2
February 2005, Week 1
January 2005, Week 5
January 2005, Week 4
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
October 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
October 2004, Week 2
October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
September 2004, Week 4
September 2004, Week 3
September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
August 2004, Week 4
August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 5
July 2004, Week 4
July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 5
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 5
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
May 2004, Week 2
May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
April 2004, Week 4
April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 5
March 2004, Week 4
March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 2
March 2004, Week 1
February 2004, Week 5
February 2004, Week 4
February 2004, Week 3
February 2004, Week 2
February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
December 2003, Week 4
December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
July 2003, Week 4
July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
May 2003, Week 2
May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
September 2000, Week 3
September 2000, Week 2
September 2000, Week 1
August 2000, Week 5
August 2000, Week 4
August 2000, Week 3
August 2000, Week 2
August 2000, Week 1
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July 2000, Week 3
July 2000, Week 2
July 2000, Week 1
June 2000, Week 5
June 2000, Week 4
June 2000, Week 3
June 2000, Week 2
June 2000, Week 1
May 2000, Week 5
May 2000, Week 4
May 2000, Week 3
May 2000, Week 2
May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
April 2000, Week 4
April 2000, Week 3
April 2000, Week 2
April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
October 1999, Week 2
October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
September 1999, Week 4
September 1999, Week 3
September 1999, Week 2
September 1999, Week 1
August 1999, Week 5
August 1999, Week 4
August 1999, Week 3
August 1999, Week 2
August 1999, Week 1
July 1999, Week 5
July 1999, Week 4
July 1999, Week 3
July 1999, Week 2
July 1999, Week 1
June 1999, Week 5
June 1999, Week 4
June 1999, Week 3
June 1999, Week 2
June 1999, Week 1
May 1999, Week 5
May 1999, Week 4
May 1999, Week 3
May 1999, Week 2
May 1999, Week 1
April 1999, Week 5
April 1999, Week 4
April 1999, Week 3
April 1999, Week 2
April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
March 1999, Week 4
March 1999, Week 3
March 1999, Week 2
March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 5
February 1999, Week 4
February 1999, Week 3
February 1999, Week 2
February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
January 1999, Week 2
January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
December 1998, Week 3
December 1998, Week 2
December 1998, Week 1
November 1998, Week 5
November 1998, Week 4
November 1998, Week 3
November 1998, Week 2
November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
October 1998, Week 4
October 1998, Week 3
October 1998, Week 2
October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
September 1998, Week 4
September 1998, Week 3

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