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AUXLANG  July 2014, Week 1

AUXLANG July 2014, Week 1

Subject:

Re: How easy is Esperanto really?

From:

Scott Raney <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 4 Jul 2014 09:31:56 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (101 lines)

On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 11:20 PM, Stephen Rice <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

(snip)

> If we assume free choice and something relatively market-based, we
> must expect multiple solutions. Some version of Windows can be found
> on many computers, but many use some kind of Linux instead, or MacOS
> or something more exotic. You rarely encounter an absolute monopoly,
> yet that is what you posit.

Not the correct analogy: It's more like TCP/IP, email (SMTP), or HTTP.
What if every user (or host) had to use a different specification to
communicate?  The Internet as we know it simply wouldn't exist.  The
same is true of auxlangs: The more incompatible "protocols" we
introduce, the less likely that the revolution that a single standard
will support will ever arrive.

> Also, it's not hard to find cases where popularity (or anyway
> frequency) does not equal superiority. Is Windows the best OS?

This is an orthogonal question: In the programming business you hear
the expression "horses for courses" a lot, meaning there *is* no one
best programming language, it depends on what you're trying to
accomplish.  This is not the case with The Auxlang: We presumably all
are solving exactly the same problem, which is how to most efficiently
allow people with different native languages to communicate.  As such,
which is "best" doesn't matter, so long as it surpasses some threshold
(i.e., is good enough, and has a strong enough movement behind it,
that people come to believe it is The Auxlang).

> It's worse than that. Think of the message we're sending: we want to
> help humanity, and we're willing to slander and backstab each other to
> do so. What a splendid example of cooperation and goodwill! But
> imagine if instead we helped each other and "valued diversity" (as a
> current cliché goes). Instead of being psycho cranks, we might
> actually seem worth listening to.

You apparently advocate anarchy, which I guess means I'm on the side
of The Leviathan (a massive, well organized, government).  But you're
right, at some point my proposal requires an targeted effort to
discredit Esperanto, Interlingua, etc.  Which fortunately won't
require a lot of effort since those things are all by definition
failed projects.  Once a technically superior and modern replacement
is available that *also* comes with support from an outside source
(that political movement), it will be straightforward to replace them
in the public's mindshare (or at least what little mindshare any of
these languages currently have).  What remains is the issue of how to
convert proponents of those other languages to the new one: Zealots
are hard to convert, but each time you succeed in doing it you gain a
powerful advocate for your cause (there is no better testimonial than
from a former user of another product).

> But let's ignore that and assume mutual unintelligibility. I figure
> 3-5 auxlangs, so we'll assume five. It doesn't much matter which ones.
> Suppose you could be absolutely sure of communicating with anyone on
> earth just by learning five natlangs. Wouldn't that be a major
> improvement over the status quo? And imagine the EU, UN, etc. getting
> by with just five languages! Now consider that auxlangs are generally
> easier than natlangs. Also, the translation programs would focus on
> translation among those five, so you would really only need to know
> one well (the one that's the best fit for you)--passive acquaintance
> with the other four would probably suffice.

But why introduce this extra burden if you don't have to?  Do you have
five different web browsers or five different email applications?

>> Oh, and to respond to another of your posts about utility, I'd like to
>> point out again that utility depends not just on being able to use it
>> for business or for hobbiest-type needs: A worldwide *political*
>> movement would be an even more powerful incentive for people to learn
>> the auxlang...
>
> It would also be a powerful incentive for those who disagree with the
> movement to despise the auxlang.

Definitely.  The two in my mind live or die together.  This makes
doing both well necessary (so that one doesn't bring the other down),
but also provides synergy that just isn't available any other way
(i.e., The Auxlang will benefit far more from it's association with
the political movement than vice versa, and this is a good thing since
it's so much more difficult to get people to master a new language
than to join a political cause).

> You're no more likely to get majority
> support for a political movement than for an auxlang.

Ye of little faith!

> And if you did
> approach majority support, you would encounter the backlash effect
> anyway--and rightly so: any movement that popular would swiftly become
> tyrannical. Power corrupts, and absolute power is only a good idea if
> I have it. Or something like that.

It of course would have to be a direct-democracy movement (i.e., there
*is* no one in power, except us).
  Regards,
    Scott

> Steve

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