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CONLANG  August 2014, Week 3

CONLANG August 2014, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Cognacy

From:

Leonardo Castro <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 21 Aug 2014 20:26:37 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (38 lines)

2014-08-08 8:38 GMT+02:00 Matthew Boutilier <[log in to unmask]>:

> i'm not used to drawing a line between "cognate" and "so different they're
> no longer cognate."


Maybe "so different they're no longer _identifiable_ as cognates".

That's probably the case of many current words from different language
families if proto-world has ever existed.

can you give an example of items in natlangs that used to be cognate but
> have evolved so far apart that this term no longer applies? i can't wrap my
> brain around this. there are a lot of forms -- like english [faIv] and
> french [sE_~k] and russian [p_jat_j] -- that don't look a damn thing like
> each other, but are no less true cognates than english [m{n] and german
> [man], since we know that they all come the same PIE word for "5". for two
> words to be cognate, all it takes is that the sound changes check out;
> being _transparently_ cognate is not a requirement.
>
> but maybe i'm misunderstanding you. when you mention _languages_ being
> 100% cognate, do you mean that neither of two related languages has any
> innovation in the lexicon? what does this have to do with cognates evolving
> so far apart that they're no longer cognate?
>
> matt
>
> > On Aug 8, 2014, at 0:18, Anthony Miles <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > No natlangs are 100% cognate with another language. But as a Conlanger,
> I can design a language and be certain of everything which is cognate. This
> includes items which, if it were a natural language, a linguist might not
> be sure if it were cognate or not. My question is: how different most a
> form become before it no longer comes as a cognate form? This is clearly a
> question which is a byproduct of our art, but I was wondering if anybody
> had given any thought to this issue.
>

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