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AUXLANG  August 2014, Week 5

AUXLANG August 2014, Week 5

Subject:

Re: The Coolness of Esperantoland

From:

Logan Streondj <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 30 Aug 2014 08:07:38 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (113 lines)

I think mojosa is better than cool,
it is more accurate to what it really means,
"modern youth style". 

Often the modern youth have to make a new words for cool,
hip, rad, etc.  but mojosa can cross the generations,
since it is so particular.

On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 01:05:48PM -0700, Leo Moser wrote:
> Risto says
> > In my opinion "cool" is a generic concept and it 
> > doesn't refer to any particular culture or subculture.
> 
> Leo replies:
> Yes, I suppose that most words can be made generic. But 
> can this concept of "cool" ever have content in a generic 
> sense.  Can it be universalized? What would its content 
> be in the absence with another culture of a subset called 
> youth-culture ?
> 
> When Zamenhof was a kid, was there a 'teenage culture'
> that held certain things as 'cool'.  
> 
> The slang expression "cool" is a "culture specific" term. 
> Does mojosega refer to a sub-set of enthusiasm among 
> young Esperantists, that is totally without reference to 
> the media output of Hollywood since 'talkies' began, 
> with no reference to things or attitudes spread by 
> English-language TV, having nothing to do with rock 
> bands or the lyrics of songs originally in English . . . ?
> 
> Recently, a primitive tribe was contacted in for the first 
> time in the Amazon. Do we expect that the kids there 
> have their own sub-culture and a word meaning "cool" 
> in their vocabulary? 
> 
> A word for 'teenager' often did not exist in many languages
> until the English language media planted it -- along with 
> a whole series of stereotypes about what teenagers were 
> like and how they reacted to their elders. 
> 
> Regards,            LEO
> 
>  Leo Moser 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: International Auxiliary Languages [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> On Behalf Of Risto Kupsala
> Sent: Friday, August 29, 2014 1:52 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: The Coolness of Esperantoland
> 
> Leo, I think you are on the wrong track this time. In my opinion "cool" 
> is a generic concept and it doesn't refer to any particular culture or
> subculture. See definitions in http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cool#Adjective
> 
> "7. (informal) In fashion, part of or fitting the in crowd; originally
> hipster slang."
> 
> Note the reference to the "in crowd". Who are the "in crowd"? Naturally
> there are lots of them, there's a different "in crowd" for every subculture.
> Therefore the definition of "cool" is highly variable. 
> Cultural revolution militants, Soviet pioneer groups, Islamic youth
> organizations and Esperantists, all of them have an "in crowd", so all of
> them have a distinct definition of "cool".
> 
> So "mojosa" doesn't point to the American culture. It's a context-specific
> word.
> 
> "Esperantujo estas mojosega loko, plena je mojosegaj samideanoj"
> 
> In cxi tia kunteksto "mojoseco" estas junula *esperanta* afero.
> 
> --Risto
> 
> 
> Leo Moser wrote 2014-08-29 09:12:
> > While Zamenhof never heard of it, 'mojosa' is a neo-Esperanto word 
> > coined from the words moderna-juna-stilo (modern youth style). It was 
> > specifically coined to equate to the colloquial English usage of the 
> > word 'cool.'  Originally, I think, by a music group.
> > 
> > But what IS the 'modern youth style?' Something Esperantist?
> > 
> > No, hardly!
> > 
> > The 'cool' modern youth style of today is something that was created 
> > via the world of jazz ( + the flappers and suffragettes), early radio, 
> > Hollywood, related TV, MTV, the Beetles and 1000 music groups during 
> > the 20th century, the Internet, etc. etc.
> > 
> > The 'concept of being cool' was not created by the Mao's "Cultural 
> > Revolution," nor by Soviet "Pioneer Groups," nor by Islamic youth 
> > organizations, nor by Esperantists, etc. It was 95% the result of 
> > mass-media centered in the English language (including Afro-American, 
> > Caribbean, etc. components.) Jeans, T-shirts, many other things were 
> > also 'cool' and the life styles evolve. James Dean, James Bond, Elvis, 
> > Madonna.
> > 
> > It is the mass-media, largely that in English, that tends to define 
> > what is 'cool' today.
> > 
> > Esperanto never became 'cool' - it probably would be considered 
> > downright 'nerdish' or 'uncool' by most youth if they heard of it.
> > 
> > Having coined a word for 'cool' does not make Esperanto 'cool.'
> > 
> > I don't mean to sound unkind or cynical. This is only being realistic.
> > 
> > Best regards to all,          LEO
> > 
> >   Leo Moser

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December 1998, Week 5
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December 1997, Week 5
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