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AUXLANG  August 2014, Week 5

AUXLANG August 2014, Week 5

Subject:

Re: The Coolness of Esperantoland

From:

Kjell Rehnström <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 29 Aug 2014 09:31:19 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (77 lines)

Stephen Rice skrev 2014-08-29 04:37:
> On 8/28/14, Leo Moser <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> Leo adds:
>> My looking about finds no Esperanto word for any of these adjectives in the
>> contemporary (mass-media) English meaning involved here:
>>         cool / awesome / groovy / radical / epic .
> It's "mojosa." Weren't you reading the text?
>
>> The Esperantist quoted seems to be merely piggybacking on the English
>> language for most of the content of what he/she is saying. (Almost all, in
>> fact.) Remove the conventions arising from mass media English, and it makes
>> no sense.
> You have totally lost me here. None of the elements in
>
> Esperantujo estas mojosega loko, plena je mojosegaj samideanoj
>
> derives from the English language, though they can be translated into
> it readily enough.
>
> Esperantujo = Esperanto-land--This has been around for a century or more.
> estas, loko, plena je, samideano[j]--these are also ancient by
> Esperanto standards.
>
> mojosega--This is recent, but it isn't derived from English. If
> anything, it seems Sinitic to me. It's an initialism derived from MJS
> (Moderna Juna Stilo = Modern Young Style), which certainly isn't
> English.
>
> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mojosa#Etymology
>
>> So IMO this says NOTHING about Esperanto being 'cool' or worthy of being
>> made the 'default locale' on anyone's computer. At least not more worthy
>> than Volapuk, Ido, LsF, or Interlingua. All can literally translate words
>> for 'cool,' 'groovy,' etc.
> But "mojos[eg]a" doesn't literally translate "cool"; that would be
> fre┼Ła or malvarmeta. So your claim here makes no sense whatever.
>
>> Only contemporary English supplies the emotive tone of such vocabulary
>> items
>> that we find in the sentences given.
> It was the cultural source of the concept, but that concept has become
> international. It's no more disgraceful for Esperantists to borrow the
> concept than for speakers of various natlangs to do so.
>
> We live in the shade  of Hollywood
>> picking up 'Valley-talk,' movies encircling the world, then TV, and the
>> Internet. The muscle here is globalizing English, not Esperanto.
> Again: So what? Why is it bad to borrow an internationally-known
> concept or even form?
>
>> Otherwise we must wonder why something that is filled with grooves, should
>> be of low temperature, or capable of inspiring awe.
> Again, "mojosa" has none of these connotations. But suppose some user
> of Inlis imported gruvi, kul, and/or asam. So what? Native speakers of
> English don't generally worry about the connections you mention, and
> non-natives can consider them coincidental.
>
>> Rather than see evidence of the 'Coolness of Esperantoland' here, I see
>> quite the opposite being demonstrated -- The effect of English as an ad hoc
>> IAL. Rumble, rumble, rumble, the juggernaut. Discouraging.
> Rumble, rumble, rumble, the groundless pontification. Truly discouraging.
>
>> There may be other ways, of course, that Esperanto-land could be described
>> as an attractive place, its ideology, its travel clubs, etc. Esperantist
>> have been praising it to high heaven for well over a hundred years. But
>> nothing in that sentence reminds us of those attractions. Quite the
>> contrary, those adjectives show Esperanto being dragged along, underfoot,
>> by
>> mass-media English.
> Using a non-English-derived term and not in any way appearing or even
> implicit in the sentence. How devious!
Could one not talk about "the 
Esperanto world" as well as you can 
talk about the "PC or Mac world"?

Kjell R

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December 1998, Week 5
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December 1997, Week 5
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February 1997, Week 1

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