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CONLANG  September 2014, Week 1

CONLANG September 2014, Week 1

Subject:

Re: De-Lurking in preparation for autumn

From:

Jeffrey Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 1 Sep 2014 14:15:30 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (60 lines)

On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 2:09 PM, Gary Shannon <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 12:32 PM, Jeffrey Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 11:24 AM, Gary Shannon <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > > As for hiding grammar and syntax in the lexicon, that would be
> cheating,
> > at
> > > least with respect to my goals. You bring up an interesting point,
> > however,
> > > about word categories. Perhaps the role a word plays depends on which
> > slot
> > > it occupies in the template. Something similar to "I saw their house."
> > vs.
> > > "Where shall we house them?" vs. "That's a big house fly." As long as
> the
> > > words themselves are not fixed in their role then they would not
> conceal
> > > any hidden grammar. (Or is it that simple?)
> > >
> >
> > ​No, it's not that simple. If you proceed as indicated, you're at risk of
> > relexifying the polysemies​ of the English language.
>
>
> If I were to actually use "house" or the English meanings of "house", of
> course that would happen, but that was simply an example drawn from
> English.
>
>
> > ---
> >
>
>
> > I don't know how, or if, one can accurately quantify the "size" of a
> > grammar, except in a rough sense, so that trying to create a minimal one
> > becomes very subjective. At the very least, you will need to specify the
> > semantics of the language, and its various word categories, that will be
> > used by that grammar. I speculate that the more "information" contained
> in
> > the word categorization and lexicon, the simpler the grammar can be made,
> > and vice versa. This hints that what ought to be minimized is the total
> > structure and content of the language, including cryptotypes; that is,
> > everything except the lexicon. I am not sure that such a task is
> tractable.
> >
>
> Maybe I should restate my goal as "Something along the lines of Toki Pona,
> but useful for actual practical applications like shopping lists, newspaper
> stories, and televised melodramas.
>
> ;-)
>
> --gary
>

​That sounds quite doable. Have fun with it!
​

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