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CONLANG  November 2014, Week 1

CONLANG November 2014, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Question for German L1 speakers

From:

Mechthild Czapp <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 4 Nov 2014 17:53:00 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (55 lines)

I am a native German speaker, and to my language perception, it means something like grasping into something to change it. Inroads does not have that same connotation to me.


> Am 04.11.2014 um 17:49 schrieb Claude Almansi <[log in to unmask]>:
> 
> Hi Mach
> 
> I'm not a native, but I was wondering: couldn't "Eingriffe" mean
> something closer to "inroads" than "interferences"?
> 
> On 11/4/14, J. 'Mach' Wust <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> On Tue, 4 Nov 2014 14:31:30 +0000, R A Brown wrote:
>> 
>>> I have checked four different German authorities and they
>>> all give Hamann's words exactly as I have written them.
>>> What's going on?
>>> 
>>> Have prescriptive German grammarians changed their minds
>>> since the 18th century.
>> 
>> Certainly. Countless times. That's what they do. :)
>> 
>>> Or weren't writers in the 18th
>>> century so concerned with prescriptive grammarians?  Or what?
>> 
>> They might indeed have been less concerned about prescriptivism back
>> then, since there were no standards of grammar or orthography yet.
>> Sure, there were those like Gottsched who considered poetry to be an
>> art that should be governed by standards, as in French poetry. But
>> others like Bodmer opposed him, appreciating English poetry.
>> 
>>> "Ein Kopf, der auf seine eigene Kosten denkt,
>>> wird immer Eingriffe in die Sprache thun."
>>> [J.G. Hamann, 1760]
>> 
>> This seems perfectly acceptable to me. Of course, after the spelling
>> 1876/1901 spelling reform (which changed spelling much more boldly
>> than the mediocre 1996/2006 reform), there is no longer a <th> in
>> _thun_.
>> 
>> On a stylistic level, _Eingriffe t(h)un_ 'to do interferences' is
>> somewhat unusual. The more usual expression would be the simple verb
>> _eingreifen_ 'to interfere'. Some prescriptivists sneer at
>> periphrastic expressions like these. They think the simple verbs are
>> better. There are, however, countless reasons for preferring a
>> periphrastic expression instead. In my opinion, there is no
>> foundation for always preferring the simple verb.
>> 
>> On a semantic level, maybe some would object to the metaphors?
>> 
>> --
>> grĂ¼ess
>> mach
>> 

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