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CONLANG  November 2014, Week 2

CONLANG November 2014, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Once upon a time (was: Re: Day 19: Tell us a story!)

From:

Dirk Elzinga <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 11 Nov 2014 16:41:02 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (73 lines)

On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 3:32 AM, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> On 11 November 2014 10:43, Pete Bleackley <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > One possibility I've considered as a stock opening for traditional tales
> > is "My father told me, his father told him…" or "mother" if the speaker
> is
> > female.
> >
> >
> In Moten, stories and fables are bracketed with the following words:
> _etitotetok_ and _otetoketito_. Syntactically speaking they are independent
> expressions, and while they are single words, it's still relatively clear
> what their etymology is: they are simplified sentences that originally
> meant respectively "it is now and it was then" and "it was then and it is
> now".
>
> Another specific aspect of Moten story-telling is that while the first
> sentence of a story is typically in the past tense, the rest of the tale is
> normally always said in the present tense. This is true both of traditional
> tales and of recounting what you've done today at dinner time. After the
> first sentence framed the setting in time, it's considered unnecessary to
> constantly remind that aspect to the listener, so the present tense
> (considered unmarked) is preferred. Moten seems to like keeping as much as
> possible to context, even the time an event happened :).
>
> Notice, by the way, that if someone is interrupted during story-telling and
> they consider the interruption to have seriously disrupted the flow of the
> story, when they resume it later their first sentence will be in the past
> tense again, to reset the story frame. Afterwards, everything will be told
> in the present tense again.
>
>
> >
> > Hm, though probably a lot of these are borrowings of one another, which
> > brings in the usual problem with observations that "lots of languages do
> > X".  Variations on "a long time ago" are perhaps kind of obvious as a
> > framing device, and so not a very informative character, but "they lived
> > happily ever after" is I think less obvious, and so it's quite suspicious
> > to see it in e.g. Thai and Vietnamese.
> >
> > Alex
> >
>
> Some are very creative I think, like the Icelandic one ("A cat in the bog
> put up his tail and there ends the fairytale"), or the Lithuanian one ("And
> I was there, drank some mead ale, dribbled through my beard, had not in my
> mouth"). Some are clearly nonsensical but there for the sound of it (like
> the Basque one: "and it was or it was not, come in in the pumpkin and come
> out in the square of... (name of a town)", which only makes sense when
> listening to the original: "eta hala bazan ala ez bazan, sar dadila
> kalabazan eta atera dadila ...-ko plazan"). And finally I like how the
> Greeks feel that however good those fairytale characters had it, they have
> it better ("And they lived well, and we lived better") :).
>

Traditional stories in Shoshoni end with the phrase kaan kwaisi kayahkwa
[ˈkãːŋˈɡʷɛʃiˈkajḁxʷa] "The rat's tail fell off." Sometimes it's shortened
to kaan kwaisi [ˈkãːŋˈɡʷɛʃi]. No one knows why.

Dirk


> --
> Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
> President of the Language Creation Society (http://conlang.org/)
>
> Personal Website: http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
> Personal Tumblr: http://christophoronomicon.tumblr.com/
>

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