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CONLANG  November 2014, Week 5

CONLANG November 2014, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Paradichlorobenzene

From:

MorphemeAddict <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 30 Nov 2014 18:38:15 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (78 lines)

One could also use something like the CAS registry numbers for all
chemicals, but assign actual names to those that prove useful in common
language vs chemical language.

stevo

On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 6:06 PM, Alex Fink <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> On Sun, 30 Nov 2014 15:27:21 -0500, Herman Miller <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> >Of course, whoever came up with "mëriğyntas" would have had to know the
> >structure of benzene, which is reasonable for Tirëlat culture. On the
> >other hand, it would've had to not have had an existing name already
> >that was shorter or more convenient, which might not be so reasonable.
>
> Yeah.  The scenarios that come to my mind, aside from yours that _ğyntas_
> won over an older term somehow on convenience, are
>
> * benzene wasn't actually known before its structure was realised as a
> possible one, and was then synthesised to suit, like cubane or the
> fullerenes vel sim were for us.  But this seems unlikely in both
> directions.  For one benzoic acid and its ester and such occur in nature
> (*here*), and the step to get benzene out of that is AIUI dead simple
> compared to the stuff that goes on nowadays in synthetic chemistry.  On the
> other hand, the structure itself is a really really surprising one due to
> the aromaticity and is probably one of the first places quantum mechanics
> interferes with the simple ball-and-stick model, and who would guess
> quantum mechanics? -- though I guess its resonance forms are quite
> guessable (that's what Kekule did).
>
> (But it's hàrd to make generalisations about cultures that know the
> structure of benzene.  There's basically only one independent example on
> Earth.)
>
> * an elaboration of your story -- the name is a backformation.  Benzene
> itself and maybe a handful of others had traditional names, but its
> derivates started being given systematic-esque names based on _ğyntas_
> which provided the bare name _ğyntas_ for benzene by analogy.
>
> * Tirëlat is lexically purist and shuns borrowings, and didn't really have
> any reason to talk about benzene till after some other culture discovered
> its structure.  In the dominant culture(s) of the world it's called
> something else, but the Tirëlat chemists rejected the borrowing and
> replaced it with a native word based on the structure.
>
>
> For the record, English _benzene_ is built off _(gum) benzoin_ which comes
> via French via some more southerly Romance from Arabic _lubān jāwī_
> 'Javanese frankincense'; somewhere in Romance the initial _lu_ was taken as
> the article and discarded.  (My sources suggest _lubān_, also a plant name,
> is old in Semitic; the name of Java has many explanations of which at least
> the most neighbourly is Sanskrit _yava-dvīpa_ 'barley island', the relevant
> component PIE *yéwos 'grain' or better 'corn'.)  Traditional chemical names
> seem to be filled with this sort of many-hop twisty etymology, presumably
> because they're the epitome of trade goods, the same reason domains like
> spices exhibit this.  If you have a conworld rich enough to do that kind of
> thing it's a great domain to show off in.
>
> >I guess the thing to remember is that you might need names for things
> >before you can begin to understand them.
>
> In the case of chemical structures, diagrams (3D ones especially) are
> probably better than names for that.  And anyway there are all sorts of
> linguistically possible middle grounds between having no names at all and
> having a unique standard name for each thing, some of which I was vaguely
> pointing in the direction of last time.
>
> I suppose that at the back of my mind is the fact that there are no
> standard names for many mathematical objects: whether I call a function
> "(x-1)/x" or "1 - 1/x" is immaterial, I'll do whichever works nicer in the
> application at hand.  That said, there's not the risk of someone poisoning
> themselves with (x-1)/x 'cause they didn't think to check under 1 - 1/x in
> the book of material safety data sheets.
>
> Alex
>

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