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CONLANG  February 2015, Week 1

CONLANG February 2015, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Design Choices

From:

J S Jones <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 7 Feb 2015 16:53:38 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (116 lines)

On Sat, 7 Feb 2015 18:56:06 +0100, Jörg Rhiemeier <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>Hallo conlangers!
>
>On 07.02.2015 15:28, R A Brown wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'll just de-lurk for a moment and will probably go back
>> into lurk mode afterwards    ;)

I'll reply to both here.

>> On 06/02/2015 23:41, J S Jones wrote:
>> [snip]
>>>
>>> I also disagree with your auxlang qualification. Not
>>> everybody has to speak it, just 2 people who (probably)
>>> don't have another language in common.
>>
>> If that is your definition of auxlang then IMHO you may as
>> well drop the auxlang criterion.   If two people wish to
>> communicate in language X, they will do so.  All sorts of
>> languages both natural and constructed have been used that
>> way.  It tells us nothing except that it's a language   ;)

My point was just that it doesn't have to be *universal* to be an auxlang.

>Indeed not.  An auxlang, as I understand it, is a language proposed for
>usage as a language for communication between people of different native
>languages.  Such proposals often involve conlangs, but not always.

And the conlang, if and when, _would_ be proposed for such. But not here.

>> =======================================================
>>
>> On 06/02/2015 23:50, David Peterson wrote:
>>> The auxlang part is the easy part: It’s the philosophical
>>> aspect of it that’s going to be difficult.
>>
>> Yes.  A philosophical language is grounded on a philosophy.
>>  What is the philosophy that Jeff intends to underlie the
>> language.  Surely it is this philosophic model that will
>> answer the question raised by Jeff in his original mail.
>>
>> Babm [bɔˈɑːbɔmu] is a philosophical language of the last
>> century.  It author, Fuishiki Okamoto, claims that "[a]t he
>> age of forty, it was possible for [him] to gain assurance of
>> what truth is."  He subsequently published his thoughts in
>> English in two volumes under the title "New Philosophy for
>> the People."
>>
>> So what is the philosophy underlying the language?

Fair question. But the project hasn't really started yet (unless I decide Jan24 is an ENPA) and the philosophy isn't defined, except that I want to avoid the conventional pigeonholes. Right now I'm just asking questions and looking at various things, such as Ithkuil.

>The term "philosophical language" is often used in the sense of a
>conlang whose lexicon is built according to a taxonomy of ideas, as was
>popular in the 17th century.  The "_deba_ 'horse', _debe_ 'mule', _debi_
>'donkey'" kind of thing.  But a conlang can be built on other kinds of
>philosophical principles.

Yes, I don't expect to use the horse/mule/donkey approach.

>But it upon Jeff to tell us in which way his project is meant to be
>"philosophical".
>
>>> And, no, no conlang can be *natural*, by definition.
>>
>> Indeed.
>>
>>> *Naturalistic* is a different thing. Then the goal is to
>>>  make the language look as if it arose naturally with no
>>>  planning.
>>
>> Quite - and many people, e.g. JRR Tolkien, give their
>> language(s) a fictional diachronic development.
>
>Yep.  This is IMHO the best way of coming up with a naturalistic conlang.

I like diachronics. It's not just for artlangs anymore.

[snip]

>>> There’s never any reason not to try an experiment,
>>
>> Absolutely.  I spent years on the 'briefscript' project
>> before abandoning it:
>> http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Briefscript/Index.html
>>
>> The Aims and Objectives I set myself in the latest version
>> of the project were:
>> http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Briefscript/ObjAndDesign.html
>>
>> But I had to make compromises and compromises meant that
>> some design principals were not being properly achieved.

This might be just picky, but I think one has to work in terms of goals and requirements rather than principles. A goal is something one would like to achieve while a requirement is something that has to be achieved. It's only when the _requirements_ conflict that the project is in trouble. But perhaps you did this -- I should reread the Briefscript pages.

>> Several years before I abandoned the project one conlonger
>> had written to me that he wished I would realize my aims
>> were incompatible.  Well, we live and learn   ;)
>
>Sure.  But you (and others) certainly learned something from it, and the
>discussions we had here about the project were very interesting and
>insightful.  It surely wasn't an utter waste of time and effort!

I'll agree with you (Joerg) here.

Jeff

>--
>... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
>http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
>"Bêsel asa Éam, a Éam atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Éamal." - SiM 1:1

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