I don't see a problem here. Isn't the case that Martin describes, and
which is indeed quite a probable one, catered for by simply not
specifying a value for @origin on the <timeLine>?
(The documentation for timeLine/@origin specifically mentions this
The allegedly problematic sentence on when/@absolute is intended (I
think) to prevent you from specifying that your timeline begans at a
certain time (by pointing to a <when> from @origin) and then not stating
what that time is.
On 12/03/15 17:49, Martin Holmes wrote:
> Hi Thomas,
> I stand by my comment: I think the reviewer was technically right, but
> only because the Guidelines fail to provide for a very common
> scenario. I think you should be able to do this:
> <timeline origin="#T0">
> <when xml:id="T0"/>
> <when xml:id="T1" interval="1.4" since="#T0" />
> <when xml:id="T2" interval="3.1" since="#T0" />
> meaning that T0 is the origin, but you don't know (or don't care
> about) its absolute time; subsequent intervals can be defined as
> offsets from it. I believe the Guidelines should acknowledge this
> use-case and allow for a <when> with no @absolute to serve as origin.
> If no-one has any arguments against this, I'll raise it as a bug.
> On 15-03-12 10:41 AM, Thomas Schmidt wrote:
>> Excuse me for bringing this up again. From Martin's answer, I gather
>> that the reviewer's comment is not unjustified. So, given that I have
>> to provide some time attribute for the origin <when> of a timeline
>> (which makes sense to me), I can see two options for resolving this:
>> 1) change the semantics of @absolute for "my" TEI version, for
>> instance by saying that it describes an offset into a recording
>> (which, by the way, has been specified earlier in the document in a
>> <media> element)
>> 2) introduce a different attribute (such as @offset) and use that
>> instead of @absolute
>> Are there any opinions on which one is the better solution? My
>> preference would be 2), since then I could also use @offset throughout
>> the timeline instead of @interval. Would that be a case for an
>> extension of the guidelines?
>> Any hints will be greatly appreciated,
>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 12:21 AM, Martin Holmes <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> This has always confused me. According to the Guidelines, @absolute
>>> be an absolute time (in other words, it should presumably be a full
>>> date-time value). If you don't know the date/time when the utterance
>>> occurred, but you do know the intervals from its beginning (as would
>>> be the
>>> case for a recording without complete metadata), then I would say
>>> that the
>>> @absolute attribute should be omitted on the first <when>.
>>> However, there is a note on <when>/@absolute which says: "This
>>> should always be specified on a when element which serves as the
>>> target for
>>> the origin attribute of a <timeLine>." In other words, if a timeline
>>> has an
>>> origin (which it presumably must), then the origin must have
>>> @absolute; and
>>> @absolute must be "an absolute value for the time", which in this
>>> case you
>>> do not know.
>>> So I believe that note is wrong. It should be perfectly legitimate
>>> to say:
>>> <timeline origin="#T0">
>>> <when xml:id="T0"/>
>>> <when xml:id="T1" interval="1.4" since="#T0" />
>>> <when xml:id="T2" interval="3.1" since="#T0" />
>>> meaning: I don't know when (in absolute time) this utterance
>>> started, but I
>>> do know that T1 is 1.4 seconds after the beginning, and T2 is 3.1
>>> after the beginning.
>>> If I'm wrong about this, and there is a way to supply a value for
>>> time" when you don't know it, I'd love to have this clarified.
>>> On 15-01-19 12:39 PM, Thomas Schmidt wrote:
>>>> Dear TEI experts,
>>>> For a format for transcriptions of speech, I am using a <timeline>
>>>> with <when> elements and <anchor> elements (or @start/@end) inside the
>>>> transcription with refer to <when> elements via their IDs, like so:
>>>> <timeline unit="s" origin="#T0">
>>>> <when absolute="00:00:00.0" xml:id="T0" />
>>>> <when xml:id="T1" interval="1.4" since="#T0" />
>>>> <when xml:id="T2" interval="3.1" since="#T0" />
>>>> <u start="#T0" end="#T2"> bla bla <anchor synch="#T1"/> bla bla</u>
>>>> The @absolute and @interval attributes in the <when> elements are to
>>>> be interpreted as offsets into a digital audio or video recording.
>>>> More specifically T0 is the start of the recording, T1 is at 1.4
>>>> seconds into the recording, and so forth.
>>>> For the last version of my proposal, I got the following comment:
>>>> "[...] it is not clear how to use [log in to unmask] The name and the
>>>> definition of this attribute in TEI suggests it is meant for absolute
>>>> times, so “00:00:00.0” seems to mean that this recording started on
>>>> midnight at an unspecified date, but probably this is not what is
>>>> I can sort of follow that (mis)understanding, but I'm not sure how to
>>>> resolve it. Is there any way of using <when> +
>>>> @absolute/@interval/@since which is less likely to be misinterpreted?
>>>> How have others used <when> to point into a recording?
>>>> Any hints will be greatly appreciated,