I stand by my comment: I think the reviewer was technically right, but
only because the Guidelines fail to provide for a very common scenario.
I think you should be able to do this:
<when xml:id="T1" interval="1.4" since="#T0" />
<when xml:id="T2" interval="3.1" since="#T0" />
meaning that T0 is the origin, but you don't know (or don't care about)
its absolute time; subsequent intervals can be defined as offsets from
it. I believe the Guidelines should acknowledge this use-case and allow
for a <when> with no @absolute to serve as origin.
If no-one has any arguments against this, I'll raise it as a bug.
On 15-03-12 10:41 AM, Thomas Schmidt wrote:
> Excuse me for bringing this up again. From Martin's answer, I gather
> that the reviewer's comment is not unjustified. So, given that I have
> to provide some time attribute for the origin <when> of a timeline
> (which makes sense to me), I can see two options for resolving this:
> 1) change the semantics of @absolute for "my" TEI version, for
> instance by saying that it describes an offset into a recording
> (which, by the way, has been specified earlier in the document in a
> <media> element)
> 2) introduce a different attribute (such as @offset) and use that
> instead of @absolute
> Are there any opinions on which one is the better solution? My
> preference would be 2), since then I could also use @offset throughout
> the timeline instead of @interval. Would that be a case for an
> extension of the guidelines?
> Any hints will be greatly appreciated,
> On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 12:21 AM, Martin Holmes <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> This has always confused me. According to the Guidelines, @absolute should
>> be an absolute time (in other words, it should presumably be a full
>> date-time value). If you don't know the date/time when the utterance
>> occurred, but you do know the intervals from its beginning (as would be the
>> case for a recording without complete metadata), then I would say that the
>> @absolute attribute should be omitted on the first <when>.
>> However, there is a note on <when>/@absolute which says: "This attribute
>> should always be specified on a when element which serves as the target for
>> the origin attribute of a <timeLine>." In other words, if a timeline has an
>> origin (which it presumably must), then the origin must have @absolute; and
>> @absolute must be "an absolute value for the time", which in this case you
>> do not know.
>> So I believe that note is wrong. It should be perfectly legitimate to say:
>> <timeline origin="#T0">
>> <when xml:id="T0"/>
>> <when xml:id="T1" interval="1.4" since="#T0" />
>> <when xml:id="T2" interval="3.1" since="#T0" />
>> meaning: I don't know when (in absolute time) this utterance started, but I
>> do know that T1 is 1.4 seconds after the beginning, and T2 is 3.1 seconds
>> after the beginning.
>> If I'm wrong about this, and there is a way to supply a value for "absolute
>> time" when you don't know it, I'd love to have this clarified.
>> On 15-01-19 12:39 PM, Thomas Schmidt wrote:
>>> Dear TEI experts,
>>> For a format for transcriptions of speech, I am using a <timeline>
>>> with <when> elements and <anchor> elements (or @start/@end) inside the
>>> transcription with refer to <when> elements via their IDs, like so:
>>> <timeline unit="s" origin="#T0">
>>> <when absolute="00:00:00.0" xml:id="T0" />
>>> <when xml:id="T1" interval="1.4" since="#T0" />
>>> <when xml:id="T2" interval="3.1" since="#T0" />
>>> <u start="#T0" end="#T2"> bla bla <anchor synch="#T1"/> bla bla</u>
>>> The @absolute and @interval attributes in the <when> elements are to
>>> be interpreted as offsets into a digital audio or video recording.
>>> More specifically T0 is the start of the recording, T1 is at 1.4
>>> seconds into the recording, and so forth.
>>> For the last version of my proposal, I got the following comment:
>>> "[...] it is not clear how to use [log in to unmask] The name and the
>>> definition of this attribute in TEI suggests it is meant for absolute
>>> times, so “00:00:00.0” seems to mean that this recording started on
>>> midnight at an unspecified date, but probably this is not what is
>>> I can sort of follow that (mis)understanding, but I'm not sure how to
>>> resolve it. Is there any way of using <when> +
>>> @absolute/@interval/@since which is less likely to be misinterpreted?
>>> How have others used <when> to point into a recording?
>>> Any hints will be greatly appreciated,