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CONLANG  March 2015, Week 3

CONLANG March 2015, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Epiphanies at 3am and the effect they have on conlanging....

From:

Jeffrey Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 20 Mar 2015 13:46:42 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (123 lines)

Hi, Sylvia,
This sound really interesting, and I am not certain to what degree you
actually need to totally reorganize your verb structure.
Your dimensional foundation might work better if you take time into account
explicitly.
So, a rock that does nothing, except just exist, still has a single
dimension, namely time.
Anything that is proceeding along a path, whether straight or curved, is 2
dimensional.
Other motion, growth, expansion, or randomly fluttering around like a
startled moth, would be 3+ dimensional.
Possibly, you could have 0-dimensional verbs for events that take zero
time. I am thinking here about a flash of lightning as the archetype. (Yes,
lightning does take a finite amount of time, but within the language, if
Sylvia wished, there could be a class of instantaneous verbs. And they
could be metaphorical: eat (takes time) vs gulp (instantaneous).)
And then you can mark these for evidentiality or volitionality as you wish.
The cat ran from A to B vs The cat was thrown from A to B.
Negative verbs could take the same dimensionality as their positive
counterparts. Why? Because it's just simpler that way. So, a cat that
didn't run from A to B would still take a 2-dimensional verb, even though
it was just licking its paws, lazy beast.
Jeffrey


On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 11:29 AM, Sylvia Sotomayor <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> So, this morning at 3am or so I had an epiphany, and it requires
> re-doing or maybe just re-organizing my verbs and my nouns.
>
> See, the verbs in the new language (currently called sodemadu) all
> describe paths, and motion along said path. I had previously divided
> them into verbs of motion, which fit that description very well
> (except maybe evi and ɛmɛmɛ), and verbs of stance, which function more
> like copulas and are differentiated by the shape of the subject. But
> really, what is going on is that the verbs group by the dimensionality
> of the path.
>
> By dimensionality I mean the grade-school idea of 1 dimension is a
> dot, 2 dimensions are a line, and 3 dimensions are a plane. So the
> verbs of stance become are describing a 1-dimensional path, so to
> speak. The verbs of motion are (most of them) describing a
> 2-dimensional path, motion along a line. (The line does not have to be
> straight, which kinda introduces the third dimension, but in the sense
> that topologically a donut is the same as a coffee mug, a path that
> isn't straight can be considered straight and therefore 2-dimensional
> for the purposes of these verbs.) The two verbs that don't fit are evi
> and ɛmɛmɛ, which really describe a 3-dimensional path. evi means to
> move outwards in all directions or to expand, and ɛmɛmɛ is its
> opposite. It might help to think of these as image schemas rather than
> as anything literally real.
>
> So, there we go, that's what the verbs really are doing. Which means I
> need to re-think them.
>
> Currently, I have 3 verbs of stance--one for points, one for items
> with a strong horizontal dimension, and one for items with a strong
> vertical dimension. I also have a negative verb that negates all
> three. It occurs to me that with this new scheme, all I really need is
> the one for points, as it is describing a path that is a point. The
> negative might be considered a 0-dimensional verb if you like. :-)
>
> Where this gets interesting is with the remaining 2D verbs. Tɨŋi would
> be the prototypical 2D verb. But what about the rest of them? Ono is
> essentially the opposite of tɨŋi in that there is still a straight
> path but going in the opposite direction. On the other hand, maybe
> anything that I would use ono for can be done with tɨŋi or ɛmɛmɛ. Pɛsi
> is tɨŋi with no destination because the assumed destination is simply
> "away". Maybe pɛsi is a negative 2D verb? Duso involves moving back
> and forth, or going around and coming back to the beginning. Again,
> not sure what to do with this. Aŋi and kiɬi, though, both explicitly
> involve a 2D path through a 3D space. That is, aŋi differs from tɨŋi
> in that the destination is the journey rather than the end-point of
> the journey. With kiɬi, the destination is something that has been
> passed by or missed. Does that make aŋi and kiɬi 2.5-dimensional?
>
> One interesting twist to all of this is that I mark evidentiality on
> the verb. For some reason, cultures that have grammatical
> evidentiality prefer statements that convey eyewitnessed knowledge to
> statements that don't. So, rather than saying "He didn't go to the
> store." (which is an inference, really, after all how do you know
> where all he didn't go?) they prefer to say "He is not at the store."
> (if the speaker is in the store). So that means that the preferred
> negative of a 2D verb is probably a 1D (or zero-D) negative.
>
> Anyway, as I said, I need to re-think things.
>
> Regarding nouns, my noun classes sort of fall into the group of things
> that don't move on their own (most inanimates), the things that move
> linearly (most animates), and the things that expand, contract, or are
> emitted (light, sound, possibly the ocean with its tides, ideas, ???).
> This roughly corresponds to existing class iii, class i & ii together,
> and class iv. Currently I have a way of conveying class iii as
> linearly motile, and class i and ii as non-motile, but what about that
> third dimension? Do I use a different form for a rock that is
> stationary, a rock that is moving as a projectile (or seemingly on its
> own like the ones in Death Valley), and a rock that is
> growing/expanding (or exploding?). Maybe this 3-way difference would
> be better marked on an animate noun - one that is still, one in
> motion, and one that is growing. On the other hand, the difference
> between moving in 2D and in 3D can be conveyed by the verb, so maybe
> it doesn't need to be marked. Something to think about anyway.
>
> Another thing I like to have in my languages is some way to convey
> volitionality. It occurs to me that the evidential system can already
> do this: it is common in evidential languages to use a non-eyewitness
> evidential for things the subject did non-volitionally. So, "I|He
> jumped down" would use the eyewitness evidential, but "I|He fell down"
> might use an inferred (it seemed to me) or reported (I'm told)
> evidential. (And both of those would use the same 2D verb conveying a
> linear path in a downward direction.)
>
> And lets not get started on dimensionality above 3D.
>
> -S
>
> --
> Sylvia Sotomayor
>
> The sooner I fall behind the more time I have to catch up.
>

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March 2005, Week 1
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August 2002, Week 1
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July 2002, Week 1
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