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CONLANG  June 2015, Week 1

CONLANG June 2015, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Naturalistic Grammars

From:

And Rosta <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 4 Jun 2015 21:10:51 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (32 lines)

Jeffrey Brown, On 04/06/2015 20:32:
> Alex F: I have pondered previously this statistical approach, and have
> rejected it. The issue is that the statistics do not seem to pertain
> specifically to linguistically relevant causes. Firstly, there are two ways
> to calculate these statistics. One is by number of speakers, and the second
> is by number of languages. The first one obviously is no good because the
> number of speakers is based too much on economic or military dominance by a
> handful of countries to be meaningful in a linguistic sense. The second one
> is better, but still suffers too much from the accidents of history rather
> than other, deeper causes. For example, let us say, in some region, there
> had been one language that was SVO and a half-dozen which were OSV. The SVO
> culture is more warlike and eventually they enslave the populations of the
> other groups and those OSV languages completely disappear. Then, the
> statistics will show a rarity of OSV languages, not due to any innate human
> repugnance to OSV grammars, but merely because of the military supremacy of
> a single culture long ago.

But isn't it fairly well-known that that sort of political dominance leads to a fewness of languages, while its absence leads to proliferation of languages? Hence, most languages are the languages of small groups.

> I’m not saying that what you do when you create a conlang is wrong, merely
> that you should not be dogmatic in insisting that it is the only way to
> achieve naturalism. I don’t have a suggestion for an alternative procedure,
> however. I still believe the true test is the aesthetic sense that comes
> into play upon the usage of the language by the author or others. This is,
> admittedly, of little help as advice to aspiring conlangers.

Off the top of my head, I'd suggest a test of naturalism might be the extent to which someone who doesn't know whether it's a conlang or not will bet that it is. A kind of conlang analogue of the Turing test.

Say, assemble a panel of judges, and for each of a range of languages, nat- and con-, get them to state a degree of confidence for whether it is nat- or con-. One set of tests could be presenting the judges with raw texts, another set could involve glossed texts, and another could involve descriptions of the conlangs. One of the judges could be an Alex Fink conlang-sniffer computer programme. That might be an interesting exercise to do in actuality, not just as a thought-experiment...

--And.

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