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CONLANG  June 2015, Week 1

CONLANG June 2015, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Naturalistic Grammars

From:

taliesin the storyteller <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 7 Jun 2015 21:31:46 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (37 lines)

On 06/07/2015 02:58 PM, And Rosta wrote:
> It would be ace if those graphs could be incorporated into the CALS site
> itself, wouldn't it.

CALS itself has only copies of.. I think natlangs with at least 50 (or 
was it 75) features. WALS includes a lot of natlangs that are only 
represented by a single feature, which means you can't get a feel of the 
language *system* as a whole and how it compares with other languages. I 
sould probably check if there's an API at WALS these days,
though.

> A bit of a downside to the WALS--CALS comparisons (for the purposes of
> answering the question I posed above) is that the CALS data includes a load
> of avowedly nonnaturalistic conlangs, so while the comparisons are valid,
> and interesting in their own right, they don't shine as vivid a light as
> one would wish for on the comparison between patterns among natlangs and
> patterns among would-be naturalistic conlangs.

I could extend feature 1000 <https://cals.info/feature/1000/>, but as it 
is, that is based on the Gnoli triangle and I'm guessing adding 
"naturalistic" would turn it into a pyramid. Ideas? A new feature 1001, 
Naturalisticness?

A more serious trouble with the CALS-data is that every conlanger 
interprets the values of the features their own way. The clearness of 
the descriptions at WALS varies quite a bit. AFMCL, Taruven is set to 
have an average number of vowels (5-6) in spite of length being phonemic 
and having a zillion diphthongs, because the only thing the *WALS* text 
asks for is placement in the vowel quadrant, and to disregard 
diphthongs, nasalization and similar phonemic alterations: 
http://wals.info/chapter/2 (1. Introduction). Just counting up the 
phonemic vowels of a conlang instead of closely reading what the WALS 
asks for might explain a skew towards larger vowel inventories.


t.

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