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CONLANG Home

CONLANG  July 2015, Week 3

CONLANG July 2015, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Hello, and a newbie question

From:

Juanma Barranquero <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 21 Jul 2015 12:56:05 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (68 lines)

> I understood that PL1 refers to small groups, or people you are familiar
> with (e.g family, friends, passengers)

Not because you're familiar with them, but because they are a definite
group; the cardinality of their set is easy to determine. For example,
speaking about friends I would likely use PL2 unless I were talking about a
specific group of friends (the roleplayers in my weekly session, etc.), or
the ones I'm with at the moment or did something with (for example, if I
went to the theater to see Avengers 2, I went with N people, so PL1). Using
PL1 to speak generically about your friends will convey the impression that
you have few friends, I think.

> and PL2 refers to large groups or unknown people.

Or small groups, but non-easily countable (for you), like passengers in a
bus you just saw in the street. Or groups whose number varies quickly
(people in a party, in some circumstances).

> In this way, a teacher would use PL1 to refer to their class but a
> passer-by seeing the students would use PL2. (am I right?)

Yes, not out of familiarity, but because the teacher knows that he has 27
students in that class, but a passer-by knows only that it is a couple
dozens or so.

> So, what would use a president/king/prime minister to refer to the
> population of the country?
> What about a mayor referring to the population of the city?

Usually, PL2. Even with a full census at hand, they don't really know how
many people there is in the country or the city.

> They do know an approximate number of people living in the country/city.
> Would it be enough to use PL1?

Not by default. Not, I think, because they don't know the exact number, but
because there is *no* exact number (population in something as large as a
city or country is really never fully specified).

> If not, I think this is too artificial
> except if "PL1 = paucal" (and not "PL1 = exact number").

Well, that's my fear. That's why I'd like to know if some natlang goes
along these lines.

> Wouldn't they use PL1 to seem closer to the population, in the same way
the
> partner used PL2 referring to the newcomers to keep them apart?

They could use PL1, yes. As I said, it is subjective. If you are a
politician using PL1 to refer to your city's pop, you're likely ACTIVELY
going for that close-to-the-people vibe. Of course, if you do it all the
time, it will likely be seen as too artificial ;-)

PL1/PL2 are not rigid categories (or at least, I don't intend to, supposing
I keep the system). It's just what you would use instinctively, like a way
of saying "I know how many" / "I don't really know how many". But in
everyday speech, pragmatics do affect what you say.

> (see
> Spanish *"estos*" / "*esos*" maybe?)

Could you please elaborate?

Thanks for your comments, BTW!

     Juanma

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