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CONLANG  July 2015, Week 5

CONLANG July 2015, Week 5

Subject:

Romlang morphology (was: No Phonology!)

From:

BPJ <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Wed, 29 Jul 2015 16:18:31 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (117 lines)

The problem with Romlang morphology is that if you want to stay plausible
it's pretty much dictated in advance by what the romlang natlangs offer.
You can mess it up to a degree with sound changes, keep a direct—oblique
case distinction like old Gallo-Romance, form the analytic perfect with
TENERE like Luso-Romance or an analytic future with VENIRE like some
Gallo-Italian and Rhaeto-Romance varieties, or mine less well known
varieties for interesting analytic formations, or borrow the odd
syntactical feature from Germanic or Celtic but that's about it. I went out
on a limb and combined the Italian palatalization of -Vs endings with
Germanic style umlaut in nominal plural formation and IMOHO managed to stay
plausible, but an attempt at inflectionalizing -IZARE didn't convince even
myself for more than ten minutes! Indeed one's best bet is to have sound
change ruin verbal morphology to the point that it needs restructuring, but
Britainese is hardly the right place to do that I guess.

As for the original subject language without phonology ain't for me! :-) I
did a lang or two 'without morphology' in my green days but I soon realized
that I only had managed to create an agglutinating lang with an excess of
whitespace in its orthography! There is one of those already; 'tis call'd
French...
Den 29 jul 2015 15:01 skrev "R A Brown" <[log in to unmask]>:

> On 29/07/2015 11:14, And Rosta wrote:
>
>> On 28 Jul 2015 23:52, "Mark J. Reed"
>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>  I don't know why I bother; there's neither interest
>>>> nor empathy here.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think you're taking Ray's jibes a little too
>>> seriously.
>>>
>>> Even if I can't really empathize with the "getting
>>> tired of phonology" motive for creating it, I think the
>>> idea of a phonology-less (non-sign) language is quite
>>> interesting, and I'm sure others do as well.
>>>
>>
>> I can understand a conlanger not being interested in
>> phonology and not getting round to inventing it, which is
>> what I'd understood Jeff's position to be, but I think a
>> complete language without a phonology is a definitional
>> impossibility: a language is by definition a phonology, a
>> syntax and a mapping between them.
>>
>
> Yes - even David Peterson's X must have a phonology
> somewhere in the background still waiting to be 'discovered'
> even tho David presents us with only the written form,
> presenting us so far with glyphs for determinatives and
> nouns.  He could well leave it that and then give conlangers
> a lovely time trying to discover its phonology    ;)
>
>  So while a incomplete conlang with a completely
>> unspecified phonology is perfectly reasonable,
>>
>
> Exactly.
>
>  a claim of a phonologyless language is, I think, not. I'd
>> be interesting in hearing from anyone that disagrees.
>>
>
> I too - tho in the case of exolangs 'phonology' might mean
> other ways of signalling than using sound as we earthlings
> understand it    ;)
>
>  BTW I'm sure Ray intended no jibe, intending merely to
>> express his own surprise that anyone could not find
>> delight in phonology.
>>
>
> Yes, jibe (otherwise spelled 'gibe') is not on reflexion the
> right word.  I did not intend any mockery or taunting. 'Twas
> merely meant to be a bit of light-hearted banter  (Perhaps
> Dr Johnson's saying aren't so well known across the Pond).
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On 29/07/2015 11:23, Pete Bleackley wrote:
>
>> You've forgotten morphology! I love morphology. I could
>> talk about it for…  about 45 minutes.
>>
>>
> I can manage longer     ;)
>
> Yes, morphology is also interesting.  It so happens that
> I've tended towards languages with little grammatical
> morphology.
>
> TAKE aimed to have no grammatical affixes - and it doesn't.
>  The only affixes it has are for word derivation.
>
> Outidic I like, but as "Dr Outis" intended it as an IAL, it
> has little morphology - but what it does have I found kind
> of interesting.
>
> Now I'm really looking forward to getting to grips with the
> morphology of Britainese.  Romance languages don't generally
> offer much excitement with nouns; but they make up for it
> with their pronouns - and as for verbs, they really go
> overboard; and the can be guaranteed to have loads of
> irregular verbs.  It should be great fun   :)
>
> --
> Ray
> ==================================
> http://www.carolandray.plus.com
> ==================================
> Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
> There's none too old to learn.
> [WELSH PROVERB]
>

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