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CONLANG  August 2015, Week 1

CONLANG August 2015, Week 1

Subject:

Re: English [ŋ] )was:: Glottal stop in German)

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 6 Aug 2015 17:52:00 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (83 lines)

On 06/08/2015 16:40, Jason Cullen wrote:
> Hi R A Brown,
>
[snip]

>>> No.  I think in both my and And's analysis it is
>>> /fɪngə(r)/ (or some such - I'll not argue about the
>>> final sound which varies considerably across the
>>> anglophone world).
>
> The final 'sound' is analyzed either as /ɜ/ or /ɝ/ (and
> allophones [ə] or [ɚ], respectively, for unstressed,
> reduced varieties, mostly),

They are unstressed. The final sound in my part of the world
is normally just plain [ə]; some of my fellow countrymen
have [ɚ], others have [er](with trilled [r]), and yet others
have [ɐ] - and, I suspect, there are other phones besides.

To be honest, I am not very interested in discussing the
'correct' phonemic representation of all these different
pronunciations.  The subject line is about [ŋ], that's why I
wrote: "or some such - I'll not argue about the final sound
which varies considerably across the anglophone world."

When I wrote "I'll not argue about" it, that is actually
what I meant.

> depending on whether it appears in a rhotic or non-rhotic
> dialect.

D'oh - fancy that!

[snip]
>
>> And's position AIUI is that the final /g/ is realized a
>> a
>>> zero sound in word final position; I argued that it
>>> was silent in most (but certainly not all) English
>>> 'lects in morpheme final position.
>>
>
> So in derivational phonology we'd have:
>
> 1. /ng/ 2. assimilation: ŋg 3. /g/-->0/__# (this part
> needs work, as clearly we do realize /g/ in word-final
> positions).

We do realize final /g/ as [g] in most environments.  Many
of my fellow country men realize it as [g] in_all_
environments; but others do not realize it in word final
position after /n/.

There can be no argument, I would have thought, in analyzing
the speech of those who always pronounce words such as
_thing_ and _sang_ *with* final [g] as phonemically
/θɪng/ and /sæng/ respectively.  It would IMHO be perverse
to posit a phoneme /ŋ/ which occurs only before /k/ and /g/.

My thesis is that the same phonemic representation can be
applied to English generally with it being noted where a
majority of anglophones have only [ŋ] and not [ŋg] in
word/morpheme final positions - that it is not necessary to
give [ŋ] phonemic status (and, indeed, arguably wrong in
_think_).

> I'd argue that we don't need to account for ellison
> because the stem, *sing,* clearly never had a /g/

For very many of my fellow countrymen it most certainly
does! Nor is it a spelling pronunciation - just a survival
into the early 21st century of an older pronunciation that
was once more widespread.

-- 
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]

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