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CONLANG  August 2015, Week 1

CONLANG August 2015, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Glottal stop in German

From:

Jason Cullen <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 6 Aug 2015 09:26:45 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (110 lines)

You're using both ŋ and ng, so I might not be following your analysis
completely. I would argue that "finger" is phonemically /fɪŋgɝ/, and it is
realized phonetically as [ˈfɪ̃ŋgɚ] (nasalization of the preceding vowel can
be argued to be dialectical or pan-General American; I won't pursue that).
I also think it's significant that *sing *is a stand alone word whereas **fing
*is not; this probably helps account for the difference. And /ŋ/ and /g/
are NOT geminate consonants. They share a common feature, which is why
nasals (either diachronically or synchronically) often become velar when
they precede velar consonants: to ease articulation at the phonetic level.
But there is no rule I know of that forbids adjacent consonant to share a
feature in common, either phonemically or phonetically. Geminates are, by
definition, long consonants (e.g. Hungarian geminates in the VP, which here
is clause final: *egy könyvet l**átok* [ˈlaːtok] "I saw a book" versus *(**én)
könyvemet láttam* [ˈlaːtːam] "I see my book"~~Yeah, Hungarian has seperate
conjugations depending on whether an NP complement is definite or
indefinite. Take that, Spanish and Russian!), they're fairly common so
they're pretty well described, and the sequence /ŋg/ is not geminate.
Otherwise, *balm *would violate *geminate, as both /l/ and /m/ are
[+sonorant] (i.e. they are different consonants, but they both share a
single feature).

Jason

On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 9:00 AM, Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> > /ŋ/ and /g/, strictly speaking, aren't geminate consonants.
>
> But we're analyzing [ŋ] as the realization of /ng/, and Pete's suggestion
> is that "finger" is phonemically something like /fɪnggɚ/, which would make
> it a geminate phonemically. As far as I am aware, doubled consonant
> phonemes in English do not usually have a different phonetic realization
> from a single undoubled occurrence of the same phoneme.
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 9:54 AM, Jason Cullen <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > /ŋ/ and /g/, strictly speaking, aren't geminate consonants. They share a
> > feature, [+velar], but one is nasal and one is oral, one is sonorant and
> > one is a stop. English allows consonants with shared features to align
> all
> > the time: think [θɪŋk]. This is, again, a nasal, sonorant velar and an
> > oral, stop velar. Right next to each other.
> >
> > Jason
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 8:47 AM, Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > On 6 Aug 2015 07:57, "Pete Bleackley" <[log in to unmask]>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Surely a simpler explanation is that the [ŋg] in finger is
> underlyingly
> > > [ngg]?
> > >
> > > Interesting, but English doesn't generally have geminate consonants, so
> > > it's weird that /ngg/ would not just reduce to /ng/.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 4:57 AM, And Rosta <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 6 Aug 2015 07:57, "Pete Bleackley" <[log in to unmask]
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Surely a simpler explanation is that the [ŋg] in finger is
> > underlyingly
> > > > [ngg]?
> > > >
> > > > I.e. /ng.g/, where '.' is syllable boundary. That's a clever
> > suggestion.
> > > My
> > > > objections are primarily that English doesn't otherwise allow
> > > > 'morpheme'-internal /¢.¢/, where ¢ is any phoneme (but the same one
> in
> > > each
> > > > instance) and secondarily that non-ambisyllabic foot-internal
> clusters
> > > (as
> > > > in, say, _vodka, walrus_) are very marked, somehow not fully kosher
> (in
> > > > some theoretical sense that remains to be adumbrated).
> > > >
> > > > --And.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask]>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jason Cullen
> > MA Applied English Linguistics
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask]>
>



-- 
Jason Cullen
MA Applied English Linguistics

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